1 00:00:04,970 --> 00:00:02,419 I'm gonna do a retake hello everyone and 2 00:00:07,579 --> 00:00:04,980 welcome to the show this is Martin 3 00:00:09,650 --> 00:00:07,589 Willis I'm your host and we have a fun 4 00:00:12,980 --> 00:00:09,660 show for you this evening we have a 5 00:00:15,110 --> 00:00:12,990 Terry Lovelace now Terry has a very 6 00:00:19,580 --> 00:00:15,120 interesting story incident at Devil's 7 00:00:21,890 --> 00:00:19,590 Den and he was a long time lawyer and a 8 00:00:23,660 --> 00:00:21,900 former assistant attorney general and 9 00:00:26,060 --> 00:00:23,670 with quite a story 10 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:26,070 he's going to be telling and before that 11 00:00:32,780 --> 00:00:29,130 we have Alejandro Rojas coming up with 12 00:00:34,549 --> 00:00:32,790 you FL updates and I want to thank 13 00:00:36,979 --> 00:00:34,559 everyone that helps out with this show 14 00:00:39,860 --> 00:00:36,989 without that help I couldn't do the show 15 00:00:41,540 --> 00:00:39,870 and anyone can help if they like and you 16 00:00:43,700 --> 00:00:41,550 can check out our website we do have 17 00:00:46,340 --> 00:00:43,710 some blogs on there it's also connected 18 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:46,350 to our Facebook page there's active 19 00:00:50,630 --> 00:00:47,730 posts on there every day 20 00:00:52,459 --> 00:00:50,640 PEGI takes care of that about 23,000 21 00:00:54,170 --> 00:00:52,469 people are active I don't know if 22 00:00:57,410 --> 00:00:54,180 they're active but they have access to 23 00:00:59,689 --> 00:00:57,420 it that's a liked page so check that out 24 00:01:02,389 --> 00:00:59,699 again there's stories every day up there 25 00:01:04,700 --> 00:01:02,399 on Facebook we get occasional blogs we 26 00:01:07,010 --> 00:01:04,710 have a guest blogger at podcast UFO calm 27 00:01:10,039 --> 00:01:07,020 you can check that out as well alright 28 00:01:13,550 --> 00:01:10,049 Alejandro welcome to the show thank you 29 00:01:15,679 --> 00:01:13,560 sir and like I said on your show the 30 00:01:19,300 --> 00:01:15,689 other day it's my favorite time of year 31 00:01:29,210 --> 00:01:19,310 I love Thanksgiving it's the most 32 00:01:31,190 --> 00:01:29,220 wonderful time of the yes and surely 33 00:01:32,810 --> 00:01:31,200 Christmas not necessarily turkey day 34 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:32,820 which I like to call it because that's 35 00:01:39,499 --> 00:01:35,850 when you meat eaters like to consume 36 00:01:42,020 --> 00:01:39,509 Turkey and everybody assumes a 37 00:01:43,730 --> 00:01:42,030 vegetarian are eating tofurkey but this 38 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:43,740 is a vegetarian who doesn't like 39 00:01:49,340 --> 00:01:45,930 tofurkey so much I don't even like 40 00:01:50,899 --> 00:01:49,350 Bennett I know it sounds gross well you 41 00:01:53,450 --> 00:01:50,909 know yes it's such a fun time of year 42 00:01:55,819 --> 00:01:53,460 your song is appropriate in a way 43 00:01:56,330 --> 00:01:55,829 because I've been shoveling snow for two 44 00:01:59,719 --> 00:01:56,340 days 45 00:02:01,760 --> 00:01:59,729 Wow really a ton of snow it's very rare 46 00:02:04,609 --> 00:02:01,770 to have snow before Christmas hmm or 47 00:02:07,310 --> 00:02:04,619 it's occasional in Maine but yeah we're 48 00:02:10,279 --> 00:02:07,320 at were clobbered party yeah Wow here a 49 00:02:12,740 --> 00:02:10,289 few times it's been chilly here I've had 50 00:02:16,910 --> 00:02:12,750 to put on my 51 00:02:19,730 --> 00:02:16,920 we go hoodie yeah so and not the thick 52 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:19,740 one yeah and we do have thick alien 53 00:02:23,570 --> 00:02:21,810 hoodies at the UFO congress.com I get 54 00:02:25,700 --> 00:02:23,580 the thin one we have thin ones at our 55 00:02:28,130 --> 00:02:25,710 t-shirt not quite ready for the thick 56 00:02:30,620 --> 00:02:28,140 one but yeah I've had to put on a hoodie 57 00:02:32,930 --> 00:02:30,630 I weep for you Bridget 58 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:32,940 Wow terrible but it's nice this is 59 00:02:37,580 --> 00:02:34,530 perfect hot tub weather and I know 60 00:02:39,770 --> 00:02:37,590 you're a hot tub enthusiast yeah and of 61 00:02:41,090 --> 00:02:39,780 course that's when people have UFO 62 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:41,100 sightings that's right they're hanging 63 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:43,050 out in their hot tubs and you've had 64 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:45,930 your own encounters at the in your hot 65 00:02:52,430 --> 00:02:49,290 tub you know also not just that but you 66 00:02:54,650 --> 00:02:52,440 know meteors you turn that beautiful 67 00:02:57,470 --> 00:02:54,660 when whenever there's meteor showers 68 00:02:59,630 --> 00:02:57,480 it's wonderful to sit in the hot tub and 69 00:03:02,150 --> 00:02:59,640 watch that satellites you see a bunch of 70 00:03:04,190 --> 00:03:02,160 them you know going up very slowly 71 00:03:06,500 --> 00:03:04,200 across the sky and right reflecting 72 00:03:08,990 --> 00:03:06,510 light from the Sun it's all good stuff I 73 00:03:11,180 --> 00:03:09,000 love well you know a lot of times people 74 00:03:14,150 --> 00:03:11,190 ask how do you see a UFO where do you go 75 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:14,160 and I just tell people go outside and 76 00:03:17,870 --> 00:03:16,290 look up and of course you're not always 77 00:03:19,580 --> 00:03:17,880 gonna see something anomalous but you 78 00:03:22,430 --> 00:03:19,590 will see some wonderful things you'll 79 00:03:25,310 --> 00:03:22,440 see shooting stars you can see them any 80 00:03:27,500 --> 00:03:25,320 night satellites you can see any night 81 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:27,510 and then once in a while you'll see some 82 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:31,290 spectacular object so for instance the 83 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:33,450 spinning like the Iridium flares those 84 00:03:37,070 --> 00:03:35,010 are really cool to see that's when all 85 00:03:38,870 --> 00:03:37,080 of a sudden you see this bright flash in 86 00:03:42,410 --> 00:03:38,880 the sky and then there'll be another one 87 00:03:43,850 --> 00:03:42,420 later or the large meteorites or space 88 00:03:46,759 --> 00:03:43,860 junk when they come into the atmosphere 89 00:03:49,490 --> 00:03:46,769 they break up and they'll flare I've 90 00:03:51,259 --> 00:03:49,500 seen them flare where they light up and 91 00:03:53,150 --> 00:03:51,269 they usually make the juice when this 92 00:03:56,090 --> 00:03:53,160 happens where it lights up the entire 93 00:03:57,710 --> 00:03:56,100 sky like it's daylight so yeah you just 94 00:04:00,110 --> 00:03:57,720 got to go outside and look and you can 95 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:00,120 see spectacular things every night you 96 00:04:08,420 --> 00:04:04,530 know I was 22 years old the first time 97 00:04:10,670 --> 00:04:08,430 that the first time I saw a meteor that 98 00:04:13,819 --> 00:04:10,680 really I remember I lived in Colorado at 99 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:13,829 the time and Longmont Colorado 100 00:04:19,250 --> 00:04:16,650 and I remember going out at night and 101 00:04:21,620 --> 00:04:19,260 just laying down in this lake playground 102 00:04:24,020 --> 00:04:21,630 or someplace where there was benches and 103 00:04:26,850 --> 00:04:24,030 stuff just to watch the stars and I I 104 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:26,860 was determined to see one and fine 105 00:04:30,750 --> 00:04:29,050 I saw one and I was freezing it was cold 106 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:30,760 and yeah okay then I went home and 107 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:32,650 saying that's gonna have to see him all 108 00:04:37,110 --> 00:04:33,250 the time 109 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:37,120 yeah there's been extraordinary ones as 110 00:04:41,460 --> 00:04:38,770 well some fireballs a lot of people are 111 00:04:43,590 --> 00:04:41,470 reporting there have been and in fact I 112 00:04:44,909 --> 00:04:43,600 got an article I believe it was 113 00:04:47,790 --> 00:04:44,919 somewhere in the UK where they caught 114 00:04:50,310 --> 00:04:47,800 some really cool pictures of some that 115 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:50,320 people can go check out and of course 116 00:04:56,310 --> 00:04:53,410 we've got the Irish UFO encounter that 117 00:04:58,620 --> 00:04:56,320 happened a few weeks ago and that was in 118 00:05:00,990 --> 00:04:58,630 the news quite a bit in the last week 119 00:05:03,030 --> 00:05:01,000 and some people are speculating that 120 00:05:04,710 --> 00:05:03,040 might have been a meteorite or you know 121 00:05:07,860 --> 00:05:04,720 sometimes they can skip off the 122 00:05:11,129 --> 00:05:07,870 atmosphere but of course some of the 123 00:05:12,870 --> 00:05:11,139 pilots that you can listen to report 124 00:05:14,430 --> 00:05:12,880 something a little more strange than 125 00:05:16,980 --> 00:05:14,440 that so it could have been something 126 00:05:20,370 --> 00:05:16,990 more odd but that's under investigation 127 00:05:22,260 --> 00:05:20,380 there in Ireland and they say they're 128 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:22,270 not going to share this investigation 129 00:05:26,010 --> 00:05:24,490 because it's confidential but because 130 00:05:28,469 --> 00:05:26,020 it's gotten so much press I have a 131 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:28,479 feeling they're gonna share something so 132 00:05:31,770 --> 00:05:29,530 we'll see what happens 133 00:05:33,150 --> 00:05:31,780 yeah yeah well of course it'll be a 134 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:33,160 government cover-up what else do they do 135 00:05:40,290 --> 00:05:38,410 right yeah so which just to speak for a 136 00:05:43,350 --> 00:05:40,300 second on this I'm gonna write a preview 137 00:05:46,140 --> 00:05:43,360 for den of geek but I got to go to the 138 00:05:47,700 --> 00:05:46,150 pre-screening and did you go to one of 139 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:47,710 the pre screenings for Project Blue Book 140 00:05:52,379 --> 00:05:50,530 no no no I just heard about it yeah cuz 141 00:05:53,820 --> 00:05:52,389 our mutual friend out there in Chicago 142 00:05:56,550 --> 00:05:53,830 Sam moranto 143 00:05:57,600 --> 00:05:56,560 of MUFON out there they had one and they 144 00:06:00,020 --> 00:05:57,610 had the big one because that's 145 00:06:06,659 --> 00:06:00,030 essentially where the TV show is based 146 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:06,669 because J Allen Hynek you know that's 147 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:09,490 where he was but wright-patterson Air 148 00:06:14,850 --> 00:06:10,810 Force Base is where Blue Book was 149 00:06:17,190 --> 00:06:14,860 headquartered so in Dayton Ohio so in 150 00:06:19,409 --> 00:06:17,200 the area and so that's why the Chicago 151 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:19,419 one was a big one and in fact Paul Hynek 152 00:06:26,310 --> 00:06:24,310 J Allen Hynek son was in attendance 153 00:06:29,700 --> 00:06:26,320 there and was part of a forum he also 154 00:06:32,159 --> 00:06:29,710 was at alien Con and that that was a lot 155 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:32,169 of fun I was able to when I did my talk 156 00:06:37,649 --> 00:06:35,289 on Spielberg I talked a lot about J 157 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:37,659 Allen Hynek and then this whole you know 158 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:39,250 very professional-looking gentleman 159 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:40,210 comes up and he says how 160 00:06:45,540 --> 00:06:43,690 oh I'm Paul Hynek so he was hynix son 161 00:06:48,779 --> 00:06:45,550 and said thank you so much for all the 162 00:06:50,909 --> 00:06:48,789 kind words for my about my father so he 163 00:06:52,559 --> 00:06:50,919 has been involved with promoting this 164 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:52,569 project Bluebook show because the main 165 00:06:58,589 --> 00:06:56,530 character is J Allen Hynek and Aidan 166 00:06:59,249 --> 00:06:58,599 Gillen he played Littlefoot on Game of 167 00:07:01,800 --> 00:06:59,259 Thrones 168 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:01,810 he's great I mean he's he's just a great 169 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:06,490 actor and he's a fun character so the it 170 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:08,770 was it was a lot of fun now so Spanish 171 00:07:15,150 --> 00:07:11,770 accent not in the show he's doing an 172 00:07:17,070 --> 00:07:15,160 he's doing an American accent although 173 00:07:20,279 --> 00:07:17,080 you're right I think he is an English 174 00:07:23,010 --> 00:07:20,289 actor but it was a really good show I 175 00:07:25,409 --> 00:07:23,020 mean it's fun and exciting to see 176 00:07:27,629 --> 00:07:25,419 Project Blue Book portrayed in a 177 00:07:29,909 --> 00:07:27,639 somewhat accurate way I mean there are 178 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:29,919 bits and pieces that they mess with so 179 00:07:35,820 --> 00:07:32,650 for instance Blue Book started in 1952 180 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:35,830 and in the show that's when Hynek joined 181 00:07:40,230 --> 00:07:38,770 to the air force looking for UFOs one of 182 00:07:43,469 --> 00:07:40,240 the other things he does is coin the 183 00:07:45,510 --> 00:07:43,479 phrase UFO those are not completely 184 00:07:48,510 --> 00:07:45,520 accurate portrayals so Hynek actually 185 00:07:51,060 --> 00:07:48,520 started with project sign the first Air 186 00:07:53,730 --> 00:07:51,070 Force UFO investigation that which 187 00:07:56,490 --> 00:07:53,740 started in 1947 and then was there for 188 00:08:00,209 --> 00:07:56,500 project grudge and then all Project Blue 189 00:08:02,310 --> 00:08:00,219 Book which ran from 52 to 69 so they 190 00:08:03,779 --> 00:08:02,320 kind of tweak that a little bit also the 191 00:08:06,330 --> 00:08:03,789 coin the term 192 00:08:09,300 --> 00:08:06,340 UFO was coined by the Air Force but it 193 00:08:12,390 --> 00:08:09,310 was coined by Colonel Roop who ran Blue 194 00:08:14,430 --> 00:08:12,400 Book and so that wasn't at the right 195 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:14,440 time frame but it wasn't Hynek but he 196 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:16,090 was one of the first to use it since he 197 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:18,610 was part of the program so little things 198 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:20,650 like that however they're real cases 199 00:08:24,689 --> 00:08:22,210 that they're looking into they're 200 00:08:28,490 --> 00:08:24,699 dramatized of course but the CG that 201 00:08:31,620 --> 00:08:28,500 they use the CGI is really good so it's 202 00:08:35,250 --> 00:08:31,630 spectacular looking and it kind of has 203 00:08:38,069 --> 00:08:35,260 more of a period drama feel than 204 00:08:39,779 --> 00:08:38,079 necessarily the x-files I think a lot of 205 00:08:42,779 --> 00:08:39,789 us were expecting you know this to be 206 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:42,789 kind of an x-files rebut reboot but it 207 00:08:47,850 --> 00:08:45,010 almost feels like if you saw the series 208 00:08:50,790 --> 00:08:47,860 dark skies from our friend Bryce Zabel 209 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:50,800 it kind of feels like a mix of x-files 210 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:52,930 and dark skies together because they get 211 00:08:57,570 --> 00:08:54,130 into more 212 00:08:58,470 --> 00:08:57,580 conspiracy type of things but it was a 213 00:09:00,510 --> 00:08:58,480 lot of fun 214 00:09:02,250 --> 00:09:00,520 they kind of mixed it together to two 215 00:09:04,530 --> 00:09:02,260 first episodes and as to what we got to 216 00:09:07,530 --> 00:09:04,540 see in this pre-screening and the next 217 00:09:10,100 --> 00:09:07,540 episode that they were advertising is on 218 00:09:12,090 --> 00:09:10,110 the flatwoods monster case which is in a 219 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:12,100 extraordinary case and it looks like 220 00:09:16,770 --> 00:09:14,050 it's gonna be a really exciting episode 221 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:16,780 also Wow yeah that's the that's the 222 00:09:19,830 --> 00:09:17,290 weird 223 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:19,840 some people think may possibly a robot 224 00:09:25,230 --> 00:09:21,970 in like twelve and twelve feet tall and 225 00:09:27,180 --> 00:09:25,240 all that very strange very strange and 226 00:09:30,390 --> 00:09:27,190 very strange encounter and what's 227 00:09:31,950 --> 00:09:30,400 interesting about these encounters you 228 00:09:33,570 --> 00:09:31,960 know I just interviewed Calvin Parker so 229 00:09:36,330 --> 00:09:33,580 a few he's been out he had this 230 00:09:38,430 --> 00:09:36,340 encounter in 1973 in Pascagoula 231 00:09:40,770 --> 00:09:38,440 Mississippi but what's interesting about 232 00:09:43,860 --> 00:09:40,780 these early encounters is that they're 233 00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:43,870 they don't fit a mold so much as we hear 234 00:09:48,390 --> 00:09:45,910 these days you know it's always the grey 235 00:09:49,860 --> 00:09:48,400 aliens with the big eyes they always 236 00:09:52,230 --> 00:09:49,870 thought they talked about in the past 237 00:09:55,140 --> 00:09:52,240 just much stranger creatures like this 238 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:55,150 which robot type of thing and the 239 00:09:59,610 --> 00:09:57,250 flatwoods monster or the Pascagoula 240 00:10:02,430 --> 00:09:59,620 incident they they saw something much 241 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:02,440 stranger at least say their account is 242 00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:05,530 that they saw something odd and in the 243 00:10:09,300 --> 00:10:07,120 70s there were a lot of people seeing 244 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:09,310 odd creatures and things or at least 245 00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:11,770 reporting that with UFO sightings the 246 00:10:15,330 --> 00:10:13,510 70s is kind of known for that some 247 00:10:17,130 --> 00:10:15,340 people you wrote about that back then 248 00:10:20,550 --> 00:10:17,140 but the creatures were odd they were 249 00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:20,560 kind of they weren't all the same like 250 00:10:25,650 --> 00:10:23,680 you hear these days so these early cases 251 00:10:27,180 --> 00:10:25,660 are really interesting and I I'm so 252 00:10:29,550 --> 00:10:27,190 excited that the public is going to get 253 00:10:30,930 --> 00:10:29,560 introduced to some of these incidents do 254 00:10:34,590 --> 00:10:30,940 you know if they're they're going to 255 00:10:37,260 --> 00:10:34,600 sort of go in order or are they just 256 00:10:41,010 --> 00:10:37,270 gonna you know are they gonna show 257 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:41,020 random cases I think it's fairly random 258 00:10:46,020 --> 00:10:44,050 what I see looking you know by looking 259 00:10:47,550 --> 00:10:46,030 at entertainment typically you know a 260 00:10:48,990 --> 00:10:47,560 show is going to have an arc so they 261 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:49,000 gotta have a beginning a middle and an 262 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:52,210 end I kind of like the x-files has these 263 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:54,490 many arcs but then this giant arc of 264 00:11:00,420 --> 00:10:57,610 this this story idea in the background I 265 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:00,430 think this is gonna be similar where you 266 00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:03,370 know Hynek is getting out there he he's 267 00:11:08,009 --> 00:11:05,440 not that into the topic he's actually 268 00:11:11,879 --> 00:11:08,019 the most open-minded person in the group 269 00:11:13,889 --> 00:11:11,889 on the TV show and he's gonna start to 270 00:11:17,129 --> 00:11:13,899 notice there's weird things going on and 271 00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:17,139 that he's being hidden informations 272 00:11:21,629 --> 00:11:19,360 being hidden from him and then he'll you 273 00:11:23,549 --> 00:11:21,639 know start to unravel the big secret so 274 00:11:26,939 --> 00:11:23,559 I think there's an arc like that so the 275 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:26,949 cases they're choosing serve the role to 276 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:29,170 kind of move that storyline along 277 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:31,689 throughout the season so I think that's 278 00:11:36,479 --> 00:11:33,970 that's how and why they're choosing so 279 00:11:39,269 --> 00:11:36,489 the first one is a little bit more 280 00:11:41,009 --> 00:11:39,279 simple it's still extraordinary but what 281 00:11:42,689 --> 00:11:41,019 we hear a lot about in the military and 282 00:11:45,900 --> 00:11:42,699 what we heard in 2000 you know in this 283 00:11:49,139 --> 00:11:45,910 case in 2004 with the Nimitz dogfight 284 00:11:50,489 --> 00:11:49,149 essentially a jet or in this case a 285 00:11:54,929 --> 00:11:50,499 propeller you know 286 00:11:57,689 --> 00:11:54,939 fighter aircraft seeing a light and 287 00:12:00,539 --> 00:11:57,699 chasing it around which which we hear a 288 00:12:02,309 --> 00:12:00,549 lot of then they're gonna move into some 289 00:12:03,449 --> 00:12:02,319 sort of critter you know this weird flat 290 00:12:05,009 --> 00:12:03,459 wood so I think that they'll 291 00:12:08,789 --> 00:12:05,019 progressively get kind of odd and 292 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:08,799 stranger as he unravels these secrets in 293 00:12:12,119 --> 00:12:10,569 the show Wow Wow 294 00:12:14,879 --> 00:12:12,129 I wonder if they're gonna do one on the 295 00:12:16,949 --> 00:12:14,889 Socorro case I don't know we have a 296 00:12:18,869 --> 00:12:16,959 little bit of insight into what they're 297 00:12:20,910 --> 00:12:18,879 gonna be covering in that the History 298 00:12:22,799 --> 00:12:20,920 Channel has been writing articles on 299 00:12:25,199 --> 00:12:22,809 some blue book cases right I believe 300 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:25,209 yeah and they've been hiring journalists 301 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:27,850 to actually do independent investigation 302 00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:29,410 independent of the show to write about 303 00:12:36,049 --> 00:12:32,110 these cases I've been featured in a 304 00:12:38,309 --> 00:12:36,059 couple that I've been contacted but I 305 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:38,319 believe that the cases that they're 306 00:12:42,629 --> 00:12:40,569 writing about are probably cases that 307 00:12:45,449 --> 00:12:42,639 we're gonna see showing up on the show I 308 00:12:47,549 --> 00:12:45,459 see great well we only have a couple of 309 00:12:49,410 --> 00:12:47,559 minutes here left have something else 310 00:12:50,819 --> 00:12:49,420 you want to touch on is that it yeah the 311 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:50,829 last thing I'd want to touch on is that 312 00:12:55,199 --> 00:12:52,689 my other latest story with den of geek 313 00:12:59,069 --> 00:12:55,209 and I've also got this an open mind CV 314 00:13:03,439 --> 00:12:59,079 which is Mickey Rourke is narrating the 315 00:13:07,499 --> 00:13:03,449 new Bob Lazar documentary that that 316 00:13:09,900 --> 00:13:07,509 Jeremy Korbel has created so the 317 00:13:11,819 --> 00:13:09,910 documentary comes out on December 3rd if 318 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:11,829 you go to open mind TV can see how you 319 00:13:17,759 --> 00:13:14,290 can go to LA and be involved with a 320 00:13:21,540 --> 00:13:17,769 premiere there but it this is exciting 321 00:13:24,030 --> 00:13:21,550 in that ever since you know 322 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:24,040 I talked to klas way back in the late 323 00:13:28,139 --> 00:13:26,290 80s early 90s he hasn't really been out 324 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:28,149 in the public very often he came to the 325 00:13:32,340 --> 00:13:30,850 UFO Congress one year he's done one or 326 00:13:32,699 --> 00:13:32,350 two interviews with George Knapp of 327 00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:32,709 Kelly 328 00:13:39,329 --> 00:13:37,120 klas but Jeremy spent a lot of time with 329 00:13:41,370 --> 00:13:39,339 him and got a lot of footage so most of 330 00:13:44,340 --> 00:13:41,380 this documentary is going to be new 331 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:44,350 footage of Lazar kind of seeing what 332 00:13:48,660 --> 00:13:47,050 she's about getting to know him and then 333 00:13:51,030 --> 00:13:48,670 hearing what he has to say about his 334 00:13:53,430 --> 00:13:51,040 experiences so I think then this 335 00:13:55,650 --> 00:13:53,440 documentary really we're gonna get more 336 00:13:58,680 --> 00:13:55,660 insight into who this guy is 337 00:14:00,900 --> 00:13:58,690 than we've ever gotten before so I think 338 00:14:03,810 --> 00:14:00,910 that's gonna be really interesting for 339 00:14:06,420 --> 00:14:03,820 the skeptics and the believers and then 340 00:14:08,730 --> 00:14:06,430 of course there's a lot of trauma added 341 00:14:13,050 --> 00:14:08,740 by Mickey Rourke's kind of gravelly 342 00:14:15,569 --> 00:14:13,060 voice area 51 and Bob Lazar you know 343 00:14:20,090 --> 00:14:15,579 he's kind of got a Batman kind of voice 344 00:14:23,460 --> 00:14:20,100 there yeah you should do vo work yeah 345 00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:23,470 yeah I'm wondering if perhaps they 346 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:26,320 tackle any questions of the questionable 347 00:14:31,139 --> 00:14:27,970 stuff about Bob Lazar in this 348 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:31,149 documentary I don't know I hope they do 349 00:14:35,490 --> 00:14:33,730 I think that that would be more fair if 350 00:14:37,889 --> 00:14:35,500 they asked some of the harder questions 351 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:37,899 so for instance even George Knapp is a 352 00:14:42,630 --> 00:14:39,970 bit skeptical around his educational 353 00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:42,640 background which cannot be verified his 354 00:14:50,490 --> 00:14:45,360 claims around the nature of like element 355 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:50,500 151 are not necessarily what we found 356 00:14:55,079 --> 00:14:53,170 scientifically and a lot of people 357 00:14:57,389 --> 00:14:55,089 credit with him discovering this 358 00:14:59,370 --> 00:14:57,399 material or knowing that it exists not 359 00:15:02,069 --> 00:14:59,380 necessarily true scientists have been 360 00:15:05,250 --> 00:15:02,079 speculating about materials these 361 00:15:07,980 --> 00:15:05,260 elements upper on the upper end of the 362 00:15:10,439 --> 00:15:07,990 the scale there for a long time you know 363 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:10,449 kind of wondering about what their 364 00:15:13,949 --> 00:15:12,490 nature may be so they can create it 365 00:15:16,650 --> 00:15:13,959 because they think you know maybe some 366 00:15:19,579 --> 00:15:16,660 of these elements are ones we could 367 00:15:23,730 --> 00:15:19,589 create and help us to generate 368 00:15:26,759 --> 00:15:23,740 electricity and things like this so yeah 369 00:15:28,259 --> 00:15:26,769 some of the science is questioned but it 370 00:15:30,930 --> 00:15:28,269 looks like he's getting into some 371 00:15:35,460 --> 00:15:30,940 science so we'll see I think that it'll 372 00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:35,470 be revelatory on that end to some degree 373 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:37,630 right alejandro you have yourself a fine 374 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:41,170 Thanksgiving you to enjoy your favorite 375 00:15:46,140 --> 00:15:44,050 day of the year all right I'll talk to 376 00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:46,150 you next week have a good one all right 377 00:15:51,270 --> 00:15:47,440 talk to you later have a great interview 378 00:15:54,330 --> 00:15:51,280 hey thank you all right so our guest our 379 00:15:58,800 --> 00:15:54,340 guest is a retired longtime lawyer 380 00:16:01,470 --> 00:15:58,810 former Assistant Attorney General and he 381 00:16:04,590 --> 00:16:01,480 actually states of this we're gonna be 382 00:16:06,990 --> 00:16:04,600 talking about this so I'm going verbatim 383 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:07,000 right here this is my true story 384 00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:09,370 Terry Lovelace 64 year old lawyer and 385 00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:12,480 former assistant attorney general in 386 00:16:19,350 --> 00:16:16,270 2012 a routine x-ray of my leg found an 387 00:16:21,570 --> 00:16:19,360 anomalous bit of metal the size of a 388 00:16:24,380 --> 00:16:21,580 fingernail with two tiny wires attached 389 00:16:26,550 --> 00:16:24,390 what followed were horrific nightmares 390 00:16:32,430 --> 00:16:26,560 spontaneous recall and intrusive 391 00:16:35,220 --> 00:16:32,440 thoughts surrounding a 1977 camping trip 392 00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:35,230 I took with a friend to Devil's Den 393 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:38,110 State Park in northern Arkansas for fear 394 00:16:42,270 --> 00:16:40,090 of losing my job and standing in the 395 00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:42,280 legal community I've kept the secret for 396 00:16:50,190 --> 00:16:47,680 40 years but in 2012 the 2012 discovery 397 00:16:52,830 --> 00:16:50,200 of this object and one and a half inches 398 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:52,840 deep in my thigh initial to flood of 399 00:16:58,940 --> 00:16:57,370 Ford and finally disclose kind of 400 00:17:01,080 --> 00:16:58,950 wording that wrong what happened back in 401 00:17:03,210 --> 00:17:01,090 1977 and that's what we're gonna really 402 00:17:05,910 --> 00:17:03,220 be talking about is what we're gonna 403 00:17:07,260 --> 00:17:05,920 talk mostly about the incident at 404 00:17:09,890 --> 00:17:07,270 Devil's Den I think you'll find it 405 00:17:12,390 --> 00:17:09,900 fascinating Terry welcome to the show 406 00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:12,400 Thank You Martin it's a pleasure to be 407 00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:15,520 here yes thank you and with right off 408 00:17:20,790 --> 00:17:18,880 the bat if you want to fill in the 409 00:17:23,100 --> 00:17:20,800 blanks of what I just talked about and 410 00:17:25,950 --> 00:17:23,110 about your background and I think it's 411 00:17:29,730 --> 00:17:25,960 extraordinary with someone with your 412 00:17:31,950 --> 00:17:29,740 background coming out with this you felt 413 00:17:34,290 --> 00:17:31,960 comfortable enough to talk about it in 414 00:17:36,660 --> 00:17:34,300 an open forum and write a book about I 415 00:17:38,850 --> 00:17:36,670 think that's extraordinary well I 416 00:17:42,330 --> 00:17:38,860 appreciate that and and there wasn't a 417 00:17:45,420 --> 00:17:42,340 lot of comfort in it I can say that but 418 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:45,430 I think it was a bit cathartic in the to 419 00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:47,530 write the book to have to revisit these 420 00:17:52,859 --> 00:17:49,440 things 421 00:17:54,060 --> 00:17:52,869 you know what was helpful to the way but 422 00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:54,070 you know I think the message is 423 00:17:59,759 --> 00:17:55,600 important and I think I think people 424 00:18:04,409 --> 00:17:59,769 should know this that's why that's why I 425 00:18:07,289 --> 00:18:04,419 wrote the book and have before we get 426 00:18:12,029 --> 00:18:07,299 into you know the incident itself have 427 00:18:14,609 --> 00:18:12,039 you received any you know any calls from 428 00:18:17,399 --> 00:18:14,619 former colleagues or has anyone found 429 00:18:18,869 --> 00:18:17,409 this like on the internet and contacted 430 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:18,879 you and say hey what's up with you you 431 00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:21,369 alright or you going crazy or all that 432 00:18:25,619 --> 00:18:23,919 have it has any of that happened you 433 00:18:28,820 --> 00:18:25,629 know it's kind of split down the middle 434 00:18:31,619 --> 00:18:28,830 and you know cuz I've had friends in 435 00:18:36,090 --> 00:18:31,629 American Samoa and Vermont and Michigan 436 00:18:38,129 --> 00:18:36,100 in Missouri and I've had about one-third 437 00:18:42,180 --> 00:18:38,139 of them call me and say have you lost 438 00:18:44,009 --> 00:18:42,190 your mind what is wrong with you 439 00:18:46,889 --> 00:18:44,019 but you know about two-thirds are very 440 00:18:49,109 --> 00:18:46,899 supportive because they believe me they 441 00:18:54,149 --> 00:18:49,119 know that I'm not the kind of person 442 00:18:57,269 --> 00:18:54,159 that would make this up so the reactions 443 00:18:57,989 --> 00:18:57,279 been mixed but I think that it's it's 444 00:19:01,220 --> 00:18:57,999 worth it 445 00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:01,230 I don't regret it they have it yeah and 446 00:19:06,690 --> 00:19:04,480 in between the time where you actually 447 00:19:09,090 --> 00:19:06,700 you know you held this quiet for 40 448 00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:09,100 years as you say where there are times 449 00:19:13,259 --> 00:19:11,200 where you talk quietly to someone about 450 00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:13,269 the situation or did you keep it totally 451 00:19:20,940 --> 00:19:17,230 to yourself you know my wife my wife and 452 00:19:24,419 --> 00:19:20,950 I've been married since 1975 and it was 453 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:24,429 a secret shared between us yeah I 454 00:19:30,659 --> 00:19:27,369 honestly did not trust even a close 455 00:19:32,580 --> 00:19:30,669 friend because you know had this leaked 456 00:19:36,210 --> 00:19:32,590 out it would have been extremely 457 00:19:37,979 --> 00:19:36,220 damaging to my legal career and and I 458 00:19:39,539 --> 00:19:37,989 know how people are and I know how human 459 00:19:42,629 --> 00:19:39,549 nature is especially when you hear 460 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:42,639 something so extraordinary like this you 461 00:19:47,460 --> 00:19:45,970 want to tell people so my wife and I 462 00:19:50,669 --> 00:19:47,470 kept it between us 463 00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:50,679 and and really I had I had no intention 464 00:19:57,749 --> 00:19:53,710 of ever going public with this until 465 00:20:01,440 --> 00:19:57,759 that 2012 incident kind of I feel like 466 00:20:07,590 --> 00:20:05,279 everything forward yeah all right so we 467 00:20:09,450 --> 00:20:07,600 have an about three or four minutes we 468 00:20:13,230 --> 00:20:09,460 have our first break coming up but why 469 00:20:15,930 --> 00:20:13,240 don't you begin with talking about your 470 00:20:18,570 --> 00:20:15,940 you went into the into the service and 471 00:20:19,980 --> 00:20:18,580 then you became friends with Toby and 472 00:20:22,740 --> 00:20:19,990 once you talk about that whole situation 473 00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:22,750 he brought up the idea going camping and 474 00:20:27,539 --> 00:20:25,840 and that whole thing sure told me and I 475 00:20:30,060 --> 00:20:27,549 work together we were both trained as 476 00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:30,070 medics and any MTS and we drove an 477 00:20:36,950 --> 00:20:32,320 ambulance together at Whiteman Air Force 478 00:20:39,870 --> 00:20:36,960 Base which is south east of Kansas City 479 00:20:43,019 --> 00:20:39,880 it was all pretty rural area back then 480 00:20:45,269 --> 00:20:43,029 of course now it's not anymore 481 00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:45,279 but Toby and I worked the night shift 482 00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:48,720 I wanted to attend evening classes and 483 00:20:56,460 --> 00:20:52,990 he was a big sky walk sky watching he 484 00:20:59,820 --> 00:20:56,470 loved to watch the stars so night shift 485 00:21:03,240 --> 00:20:59,830 was perfect for both of us and one that 486 00:21:04,379 --> 00:21:03,250 one day he he came to me in early 77 and 487 00:21:06,049 --> 00:21:04,389 said hey you know why don't we go 488 00:21:08,490 --> 00:21:06,059 camping 489 00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:08,500 no what are you talking about you know 490 00:21:12,570 --> 00:21:10,809 we're city kids Tobia neither one of us 491 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:12,580 had ever been camping he was I'm from 492 00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:15,850 st. Louis he was from Flint and he he 493 00:21:20,460 --> 00:21:17,230 knew that I was a photographer that I 494 00:21:23,310 --> 00:21:20,470 did I enjoyed photography had a black 495 00:21:25,799 --> 00:21:23,320 room or darkroom in my in my home and I 496 00:21:27,299 --> 00:21:25,809 developed black and white film and he 497 00:21:29,820 --> 00:21:27,309 knew that I liked to photograph wildlife 498 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:29,830 and there's not much you can do with a 499 00:21:35,639 --> 00:21:33,250 camera on a nuclear base so this said 500 00:21:37,289 --> 00:21:35,649 why don't we go down to this place you 501 00:21:38,909 --> 00:21:37,299 know it's a six hour drive it would be 502 00:21:41,820 --> 00:21:38,919 fun we can get away for a couple days 503 00:21:45,659 --> 00:21:41,830 and I kind of this was dismissive about 504 00:21:48,899 --> 00:21:45,669 the idea but I guess a it grew on me and 505 00:21:58,169 --> 00:21:48,909 as the week's went by it became almost 506 00:21:59,940 --> 00:21:58,179 an obsession to go and we did it was it 507 00:22:05,100 --> 00:21:59,950 was a journey of missteps from the 508 00:22:08,430 --> 00:22:05,110 beginning but we packed our bags early 509 00:22:14,039 --> 00:22:08,440 one one Saturday morning and we had it 510 00:22:14,740 --> 00:22:14,049 south and got to the park late in the 511 00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:14,750 afternoon 512 00:22:23,860 --> 00:22:21,200 and would for a hike yeah it's a it's an 513 00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:23,870 absolutely beautiful place and we were 514 00:22:28,690 --> 00:22:25,310 determined that we didn't want to stay 515 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:28,700 in the campground because to photograph 516 00:22:32,140 --> 00:22:29,770 wildlife 517 00:22:35,890 --> 00:22:32,150 well Toby's analogy was you might as 518 00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:35,900 well camp in no parking lot somewhere 519 00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:37,520 because you know I got all these people 520 00:22:43,390 --> 00:22:39,440 around you if you look for a wildlife we 521 00:22:46,210 --> 00:22:43,400 need to go out into the wild so we did 522 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:46,220 we drove as far back into the into the 523 00:22:54,070 --> 00:22:50,210 wilderness as we could go start it off 524 00:22:57,700 --> 00:22:54,080 with pavement then gravel then dirt then 525 00:23:00,940 --> 00:22:57,710 just two ruts in the road and looking 526 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:00,950 for a piece of high ground and that we 527 00:23:08,380 --> 00:23:05,450 found it Toby found a spot we went kind 528 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:08,390 of the grade went spiral upward and we 529 00:23:13,780 --> 00:23:11,090 came upon this metal that was just 530 00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:13,790 absolutely breathtaking scenery was 531 00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:16,400 phenomenal we had this metal that was 532 00:23:21,820 --> 00:23:18,320 old them in front of us and a tree line 533 00:23:23,470 --> 00:23:21,830 to her back and we both just kind of 534 00:23:25,450 --> 00:23:23,480 nodded to one another and sit off man 535 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:25,460 this is this is the place now it was 536 00:23:32,890 --> 00:23:29,290 this actually public land this was 537 00:23:34,660 --> 00:23:32,900 private well it's it's public land but 538 00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:34,670 it was off-limits to hikers and campers 539 00:23:39,850 --> 00:23:37,280 so how did you how did you get to this 540 00:23:43,390 --> 00:23:39,860 point did you 541 00:23:47,230 --> 00:23:43,400 well it wasn't fenced off what we trust 542 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:47,240 passed there was there were two posts on 543 00:23:51,370 --> 00:23:49,010 either coast on either side of the road 544 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:51,380 and a chain across the road and the 545 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:53,090 chain had a lock on it but it had just 546 00:23:57,730 --> 00:23:55,970 locked on a loop and was just draped 547 00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:57,740 over this other post 548 00:24:02,140 --> 00:23:59,840 so Toby just hopped out of the car and 549 00:24:05,530 --> 00:24:02,150 picked up the chain dropped it you know 550 00:24:07,300 --> 00:24:05,540 what Cinque and we drove in and that's 551 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:07,310 that's how we got into the into this 552 00:24:14,350 --> 00:24:11,810 remote area Devil's Den well alright so 553 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:14,360 we're coming up I guess we might as well 554 00:24:19,630 --> 00:24:17,690 go ahead and take the break now so we'll 555 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:19,640 talk about when we come back we'll talk 556 00:24:26,980 --> 00:24:22,970 about you found that little place on up 557 00:24:29,170 --> 00:24:26,990 that oversees the meadow there and we'll 558 00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:29,180 go to break now so our 559 00:24:34,060 --> 00:24:31,520 so this is Martin Willis and I'm on with 560 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:34,070 Terry Lovelace and we're talking about 561 00:24:41,730 --> 00:24:35,930 the incident at Devil's Den and we'll be 562 00:24:48,990 --> 00:24:45,730 all right gang we are in the clear and I 563 00:24:54,580 --> 00:24:49,000 think to make doubly sure your one two 564 00:24:56,380 --> 00:24:54,590 three four and a half minutes will give 565 00:24:58,510 --> 00:24:56,390 or take a few minutes okay I'm gonna 566 00:25:00,490 --> 00:24:58,520 give it a few seconds there Martin sure 567 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:00,500 all right got it all right 568 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:03,650 so Terry so we will go back to what 569 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:05,090 we're talking about this is our break 570 00:25:10,450 --> 00:25:08,690 time so we will change the subject for 571 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:10,460 the people in the letter of listening 572 00:25:17,050 --> 00:25:12,530 live on YouTube basically and also my 573 00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:17,060 podcast listeners and so actually I 574 00:25:21,490 --> 00:25:19,520 guess I'll just ask you so now you live 575 00:25:24,340 --> 00:25:21,500 in Texas did you move around in 576 00:25:27,730 --> 00:25:24,350 different different places in the 577 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:27,740 country and did you actually were you in 578 00:25:30,910 --> 00:25:29,210 the service when you first went to Texas 579 00:25:32,530 --> 00:25:30,920 or what made you actually land there you 580 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:32,540 said you were from Flint Michigan 581 00:25:36,370 --> 00:25:34,610 oh I'm no Missouri or I'm sorry where 582 00:25:37,630 --> 00:25:36,380 did you say you're from yeah I was from 583 00:25:38,050 --> 00:25:37,640 saying well I grew up in st. Louis 584 00:25:41,380 --> 00:25:38,060 Missouri 585 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:41,390 totally rough Flint Michigan and I ended 586 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:42,890 up I joined the military right out of 587 00:25:54,220 --> 00:25:47,210 high school and that's how I ended up in 588 00:25:56,430 --> 00:25:54,230 in in Texas and then 40 years later I 589 00:26:00,370 --> 00:25:56,440 retired from the state of Vermont in 590 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:00,380 2008 2011 and my kids grandkids are all 591 00:26:05,770 --> 00:26:04,010 in Dallas so you know much rather be 592 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:05,780 here with my family than then in Vermont 593 00:26:10,750 --> 00:26:08,330 I mean we love Vermont this is this is 594 00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:10,760 family is right now that's important now 595 00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:13,760 as far as uh your law degree and all 596 00:26:19,230 --> 00:26:17,840 that you did you did take some schooling 597 00:26:22,510 --> 00:26:19,240 in that while you were in the service 598 00:26:25,290 --> 00:26:22,520 and on the GI Bill is that how you you 599 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:25,300 actually eventually got your law degree 600 00:26:31,570 --> 00:26:28,490 yeah that the GI Bill paid 100 percent 601 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:31,580 of my undergraduate I got a bachelor's 602 00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:35,690 in psychology but the the law degree I 603 00:26:42,310 --> 00:26:37,940 was on was on me me and a student loan 604 00:26:45,940 --> 00:26:42,320 people so but it was a good investment 605 00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:45,950 oh yeah and and how did you you actually 606 00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:49,600 were you actually excel to become a 607 00:26:55,450 --> 00:26:51,710 Assistant Attorney General how did that 608 00:26:59,050 --> 00:26:55,460 all that work well you know I I don't 609 00:27:00,700 --> 00:26:59,060 know if I can say yeah so I I didn't 610 00:27:02,260 --> 00:27:00,710 private practice and was kind of getting 611 00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:02,270 tired of it to be honest with ya I 612 00:27:06,100 --> 00:27:04,640 wanted something different and I was 613 00:27:08,110 --> 00:27:06,110 talking to a friend one day and he said 614 00:27:09,580 --> 00:27:08,120 you already do something different why 615 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:09,590 don't you move down to American Samoa 616 00:27:19,420 --> 00:27:13,370 and do a gig down there as an assistant 617 00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:19,430 AG and I said well wow how do I like I 618 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:20,960 got your hook up right here you know 619 00:27:28,510 --> 00:27:24,410 send this guy resume I did I got a phone 620 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:28,520 call and went talk to my family and at 621 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:29,930 dinner that night I said you know hey 622 00:27:37,330 --> 00:27:31,370 how would you guys feel about moving to 623 00:27:40,450 --> 00:27:37,340 American Samoa I was like what no kids 624 00:27:42,820 --> 00:27:40,460 knew where it was I said no you know 625 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:42,830 let's sell the house let's sell the cars 626 00:27:46,210 --> 00:27:44,810 let's pick a friend let's move down the 627 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:46,220 South Pacific for a couple years 628 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:50,930 Wow and everybody agreed we did but it 629 00:27:55,450 --> 00:27:53,450 was great Wow wonderful wow that's an 630 00:27:59,350 --> 00:27:55,460 amazing coincidence although they all 631 00:28:02,650 --> 00:27:59,360 fell together and let's say we got about 632 00:28:07,540 --> 00:28:02,660 just about a minute and a half here had 633 00:28:12,030 --> 00:28:07,550 you had any other sightings since this 634 00:28:14,260 --> 00:28:12,040 incident or like you know after this 635 00:28:17,170 --> 00:28:14,270 1977 incident had you had other 636 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:17,180 sightings as well you know I had an 637 00:28:25,270 --> 00:28:22,010 incident 1987 1987 my wife had her one 638 00:28:28,090 --> 00:28:25,280 and only experience and that was in the 639 00:28:31,870 --> 00:28:28,100 middle of the night she reached over 640 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:31,880 notice I wasn't in bed and at the end of 641 00:28:38,530 --> 00:28:34,850 the bed which there was a window in back 642 00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:38,540 of the bed and there was a four foot 643 00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:42,110 tall woman silhouetted against the the 644 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:46,480 window and this woman spoke to my wife 645 00:28:52,630 --> 00:28:48,410 telepathically she said her lips never 646 00:28:55,780 --> 00:28:52,640 moved and said everything's okay go back 647 00:28:56,259 --> 00:28:55,790 to sleep and she did Wow 648 00:28:57,519 --> 00:28:56,269 what 649 00:29:00,729 --> 00:28:57,529 I'd like to talk about that a little 650 00:29:03,430 --> 00:29:00,739 more later on in the show but we're just 651 00:29:05,229 --> 00:29:03,440 about ready to come back here and just 652 00:29:12,190 --> 00:29:05,239 it looks like 15 seconds or so right 653 00:29:15,219 --> 00:29:12,200 race we are about 26 seconds out 654 00:29:16,509 --> 00:29:15,229 Oh 26 seconds okay but sorry I didn't 655 00:29:17,829 --> 00:29:16,519 have a mic brought it up they can hear 656 00:29:21,099 --> 00:29:17,839 me better now ma yeah that's fine 657 00:29:24,159 --> 00:29:21,109 sure yeah yeah that's uh that's 658 00:29:25,839 --> 00:29:24,169 interesting and I wanted to ask you I 659 00:29:28,259 --> 00:29:25,849 guess we have just a quick time how did 660 00:29:31,949 --> 00:29:28,269 she know it was a woman 661 00:29:34,539 --> 00:29:31,959 my wife said that she wore a hood and 662 00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:34,549 had it tied around her weight head I had 663 00:29:41,019 --> 00:29:39,440 like a thing tied around her waist but 664 00:29:43,719 --> 00:29:41,029 she said it was definitely a woman 665 00:29:46,149 --> 00:29:43,729 it was female the voice was female she 666 00:29:47,739 --> 00:29:46,159 heard the voice clearly in her head okay 667 00:29:51,159 --> 00:29:47,749 I think we're going back on right now 668 00:29:53,529 --> 00:29:51,169 race that's correct okay sorry to 669 00:29:55,869 --> 00:29:53,539 interrupt you there right are they all 670 00:29:58,989 --> 00:29:55,879 set mr. Lovelace you all set I certainly 671 00:30:05,289 --> 00:29:58,999 a.m. all right sir Martin here we go I 672 00:30:07,479 --> 00:30:05,299 mean thought or three - all right 673 00:30:10,719 --> 00:30:07,489 welcome back everyone this is Martin 674 00:30:13,359 --> 00:30:10,729 Willis we're on kgr a radio and youtube 675 00:30:17,889 --> 00:30:13,369 as well and my guest is Terry Lovelace 676 00:30:20,979 --> 00:30:17,899 and when we broke at the last break we 677 00:30:23,709 --> 00:30:20,989 were talking about basically him pulling 678 00:30:25,239 --> 00:30:23,719 up into this nice area where there was 679 00:30:27,219 --> 00:30:25,249 beautiful scenery in a meadow and 680 00:30:30,159 --> 00:30:27,229 getting ready to go camping and you 681 00:30:31,959 --> 00:30:30,169 decided to go for a hike why didn't you 682 00:30:35,349 --> 00:30:31,969 set up your campsite first before you 683 00:30:37,779 --> 00:30:35,359 went for a hike there was a disagreement 684 00:30:40,779 --> 00:30:37,789 about that Toby thought we should do 685 00:30:42,219 --> 00:30:40,789 that immediately and I'm like no no man 686 00:30:43,899 --> 00:30:42,229 I've been driving and you know my legs 687 00:30:48,190 --> 00:30:43,909 are tired I want to stretch my legs a 688 00:30:51,609 --> 00:30:48,200 little bit and we decided to go for a 689 00:30:54,849 --> 00:30:51,619 hike and found a beautiful place found a 690 00:30:58,269 --> 00:30:54,859 nice limestone outcropping with like a 691 00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:58,279 canopy of trees overhead and we'd walk 692 00:31:02,259 --> 00:31:00,799 maybe four miles and we are both in good 693 00:31:06,099 --> 00:31:02,269 shape not a bit not a big deal at all 694 00:31:09,060 --> 00:31:06,109 and we sat back kick back on this rock 695 00:31:11,490 --> 00:31:09,070 and I felt sleepy 696 00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:11,500 you know in hindsight I should not have 697 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:14,260 been sleepy you know tired maybe but 698 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:18,010 there's there's a difference and both of 699 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:21,010 us fell asleep and the next thing I knew 700 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:23,650 he was kicking me screaming with 701 00:31:32,250 --> 00:31:28,090 expletives get up get up and we raced 702 00:31:35,490 --> 00:31:32,260 back to the car and a campsite and got 703 00:31:37,410 --> 00:31:35,500 that just just Twilight had set in so 704 00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:37,420 we're fortunate we got back but we could 705 00:31:42,450 --> 00:31:39,760 have been stranded out there all night 706 00:31:47,190 --> 00:31:42,460 got back at Twilight and started to set 707 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:47,200 up camp and that's that's we actually I 708 00:31:50,670 --> 00:31:48,730 hadn't pulled the car around kick on the 709 00:31:54,450 --> 00:31:50,680 high beams to have enough light for tobe 710 00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:54,460 to assemble the kit the tent yeah my job 711 00:31:59,880 --> 00:31:56,080 was to go out and gather some firewood 712 00:32:02,730 --> 00:31:59,890 for the fire you know I had a camp 713 00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:02,740 lantern and a nice hatchet that a 714 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:04,480 neighbor had lent me for the trip along 715 00:32:11,580 --> 00:32:06,850 with a gallon of fuel left them all in 716 00:32:14,490 --> 00:32:11,590 my garage I had you know basically my 717 00:32:16,580 --> 00:32:14,500 hands to go out and tobey's frantically 718 00:32:20,190 --> 00:32:16,590 putting this tent together and I'm 719 00:32:24,270 --> 00:32:20,200 grabbing all this basically brush that I 720 00:32:27,750 --> 00:32:24,280 can find twigs and I'd I built too big 721 00:32:30,450 --> 00:32:27,760 too big pet stacks hopefully enough in 722 00:32:34,020 --> 00:32:30,460 two piles have a seven let's have a nice 723 00:32:36,750 --> 00:32:34,030 fire throughout the night and we got 724 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:36,760 camp set up kick some cook some hot dogs 725 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:40,570 made a fire click back on the on the we 726 00:32:44,250 --> 00:32:42,370 had air mattresses kick back on those 727 00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:44,260 and we're just talking and we're having 728 00:32:49,020 --> 00:32:46,960 a pleasant evening and I remember saying 729 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:49,030 to Toby you know I said man this was 730 00:32:52,830 --> 00:32:50,890 this must be the Alaura camping this 731 00:32:57,210 --> 00:32:52,840 must be why people come to do this this 732 00:32:58,500 --> 00:32:57,220 is this is pleasant and we were kind of 733 00:33:00,420 --> 00:32:58,510 laughing and cutting it up and then 734 00:33:03,810 --> 00:33:00,430 there's a lull in our conversation and 735 00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:03,820 that's when I noted that all of the 736 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:06,640 sounds that we'd heard earlier in the 737 00:33:12,540 --> 00:33:08,890 evening the crickets and the tree frogs 738 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:12,550 and all that had gone they were quiet 739 00:33:20,010 --> 00:33:17,290 and even the breeze was gone you know it 740 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:20,020 was just very still and I found it 741 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:21,330 unnerving 742 00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:23,450 and I asked Toby I said hey Toby what 743 00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:26,310 you know is it awful quiet you were the 744 00:33:30,050 --> 00:33:28,320 tree frogs we're crickets and stuff man 745 00:33:33,380 --> 00:33:30,060 it was loud out here just a little while 746 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:33,390 ago he's like yeah yeah yeah don't worry 747 00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:34,410 about it you know what we've been 748 00:33:38,660 --> 00:33:36,480 laughing they cuddle it up you know that 749 00:33:40,370 --> 00:33:38,670 we we just quiet they're dumb no they'll 750 00:33:45,020 --> 00:33:40,380 come back watch mark my words he'll be 751 00:33:47,660 --> 00:33:45,030 back in an hour and he was fine with it 752 00:33:52,850 --> 00:33:47,670 but like I said I found it unsettling 753 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:52,860 and it was right after that that he was 754 00:34:01,730 --> 00:33:56,850 looking to his left and looking at 755 00:34:04,460 --> 00:34:01,740 something and he said hey man were those 756 00:34:07,610 --> 00:34:04,470 were those there before and I said 757 00:34:11,780 --> 00:34:07,620 they're what and that's when I looked 758 00:34:13,550 --> 00:34:11,790 and I saw right on the horizon 759 00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:13,560 well actually a little bit above the 760 00:34:18,620 --> 00:34:16,560 horizon they were too far above the 761 00:34:21,740 --> 00:34:18,630 horizon to have been like road lights or 762 00:34:23,930 --> 00:34:21,750 something were these three stars and 763 00:34:28,070 --> 00:34:23,940 they were in a tight little triangle 764 00:34:31,450 --> 00:34:28,080 formation and they were stationary and 765 00:34:33,980 --> 00:34:31,460 we were both familiar with aircraft and 766 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:33,990 we knew that there was no aircraft that 767 00:34:40,730 --> 00:34:36,210 had a light configuration like that 768 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:40,740 scientists things were stationary for 769 00:34:45,260 --> 00:34:42,450 about 15 minutes we're debating on what 770 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:45,270 these things could be and then that's 771 00:34:50,870 --> 00:34:48,330 when they moved and at first they 772 00:34:55,130 --> 00:34:50,880 rotated like that they were on an axis 773 00:34:56,780 --> 00:34:55,140 they they turned almost 360 degrees you 774 00:34:59,930 --> 00:34:56,790 talk about the lights themselves 775 00:35:03,740 --> 00:34:59,940 I am the three lights turned they 776 00:35:07,370 --> 00:35:03,750 rotated in unison and they're almost a 777 00:35:10,460 --> 00:35:07,380 complete 360 and then stopped again and 778 00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:10,470 we were excited we were really whoa what 779 00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:14,510 is this we were you know just really 780 00:35:20,750 --> 00:35:18,960 amazed by what we're seeing and we're 781 00:35:23,930 --> 00:35:20,760 watching these things and talking about 782 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:23,940 what it could be and then they started 783 00:35:30,110 --> 00:35:27,210 to move up into the sky and they started 784 00:35:33,860 --> 00:35:30,120 the slowest scent and that's when I 785 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:33,870 noticed the spilling of calm the 786 00:35:40,430 --> 00:35:35,130 spilling of 787 00:35:44,570 --> 00:35:40,440 and it washed over me in like a wave it 788 00:35:47,900 --> 00:35:44,580 was close to feeling sedated I felt just 789 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:47,910 very calm and where I felt a little 790 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:51,690 unnerved just 30 minutes earlier and I 791 00:36:00,410 --> 00:35:55,050 found myself but this pleasant feeling 792 00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:00,420 of just watching this thing and it's 793 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:02,640 hard too hard to imagine because it 794 00:36:09,830 --> 00:36:07,050 turns for so contradictory but we were 795 00:36:13,090 --> 00:36:09,840 almost disinterested if then if you can 796 00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:13,100 believe that I mean we thought more like 797 00:36:20,270 --> 00:36:18,510 observers our reaction was not 798 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:20,280 appropriate to what we were seeing I 799 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:23,010 mean we shut up then a little more 800 00:36:31,130 --> 00:36:27,930 wigged out and we weren't and there was 801 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:31,140 barely a word spoken between us and I 802 00:36:37,670 --> 00:36:34,410 remember I recalled Toby said where 803 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:37,680 they're really moving now as they were 804 00:36:43,940 --> 00:36:40,890 moving up into the sky and we could see 805 00:36:46,070 --> 00:36:43,950 that the area in between the three 806 00:36:48,230 --> 00:36:46,080 lights was much darker than the 807 00:36:51,350 --> 00:36:48,240 surrounding blue sky it was black 808 00:36:53,180 --> 00:36:51,360 between these three stars we called him 809 00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:53,190 first 810 00:36:58,250 --> 00:36:56,640 and we noticed that they were they were 811 00:37:00,620 --> 00:36:58,260 they remained equidistant and they 812 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:00,630 expanded the thing was getting bigger 813 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:03,530 because he was getting closer to us I 814 00:37:10,190 --> 00:37:07,770 was still traveling slow and we could 815 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:10,200 see that as it would pass through a star 816 00:37:17,390 --> 00:37:12,810 field the stars would weak out and then 817 00:37:18,890 --> 00:37:17,400 weak back on as it passed so that let us 818 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:18,900 know that we were looking at a solid 819 00:37:27,350 --> 00:37:22,010 object not three independent lights 820 00:37:32,690 --> 00:37:27,360 perfectly choreographed we watched it 821 00:37:35,450 --> 00:37:32,700 and it got bigger and bigger and there 822 00:37:38,990 --> 00:37:35,460 but they see the conversation was very 823 00:37:45,620 --> 00:37:39,000 little spoken between us weird Wow and 824 00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:45,630 and the feeling of calm was was just was 825 00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:48,510 just incredible and this thing got big 826 00:37:58,070 --> 00:37:52,800 and bigger and I think Toby said it's 827 00:38:01,640 --> 00:37:58,080 headed our way one of us said one and it 828 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:01,650 was a in a span of 40 minutes it had 829 00:38:08,990 --> 00:38:04,650 traveled from the western horizon to 830 00:38:12,340 --> 00:38:09,000 directly over the top of us and it came 831 00:38:14,450 --> 00:38:12,350 to a stop and the size of this thing 832 00:38:18,910 --> 00:38:14,460 besides of it was just absolutely 833 00:38:21,620 --> 00:38:18,920 incredible it was hard to tell the size 834 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:21,630 because it was nighttime and it was 835 00:38:29,660 --> 00:38:25,290 probably 2,500 3,000 feet over the top 836 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:29,670 over our heads and just a bit off-center 837 00:38:34,850 --> 00:38:32,610 from us so we could see one side of the 838 00:38:41,210 --> 00:38:34,860 triangle not the other two we just saw 839 00:38:48,380 --> 00:38:41,220 the one side and as we're watching this 840 00:38:51,260 --> 00:38:48,390 thing there's an area underneath from 841 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:51,270 underneath the triangle came a light and 842 00:38:56,740 --> 00:38:53,370 it was like someone flipped the switch 843 00:39:00,380 --> 00:38:56,750 and it was armed and this light was 844 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:00,390 about the diameter of a softball maybe 845 00:39:07,460 --> 00:39:03,810 six inches in diameter and it was a 846 00:39:09,410 --> 00:39:07,470 visible white light it was like a like a 847 00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:09,420 searchlight cutting through dense fog 848 00:39:16,670 --> 00:39:12,800 kind of thing it was a visible light and 849 00:39:23,390 --> 00:39:16,680 that flipped on and landed dead center 850 00:39:25,610 --> 00:39:23,400 of our camp fire and I don't know if we 851 00:39:27,230 --> 00:39:25,620 even if we even remark about it at that 852 00:39:32,450 --> 00:39:27,240 point I don't know if we had any comment 853 00:39:34,550 --> 00:39:32,460 even to that and that was on for maybe 854 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:34,560 two minutes and then it flipped out 855 00:39:45,850 --> 00:39:39,810 flipped out switched off and then a 856 00:39:49,010 --> 00:39:45,860 minute or two later this bluish purplish 857 00:39:53,150 --> 00:39:49,020 laser beam about the diameter of a 858 00:39:57,110 --> 00:39:53,160 pencil flipped on from again from the 859 00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,120 center of this thing and it landed in 860 00:40:02,000 --> 00:39:59,760 the camp side and it would it would flip 861 00:40:05,390 --> 00:40:02,010 on and 862 00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:05,400 for a second or less and then flip off 863 00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:07,920 and then a millisecond later it would 864 00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:09,510 flip on and be in a different direction 865 00:40:16,310 --> 00:40:14,160 or a different location so in an on/off 866 00:40:18,110 --> 00:40:16,320 pipe think this thing was dancing listen 867 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:18,120 it looks like this light was dancing all 868 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:22,050 around our campsite and I know that this 869 00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:24,210 beam of light you know struck me several 870 00:40:29,870 --> 00:40:26,160 times and I saw it 871 00:40:33,170 --> 00:40:29,880 strike Toby and but it hit our tent my 872 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:33,180 car it danced around everything now was 873 00:40:37,330 --> 00:40:34,290 there it pardon me was there any 874 00:40:39,340 --> 00:40:37,340 sensation when it actually touched you 875 00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:39,350 not at all 876 00:40:45,140 --> 00:40:41,520 nothing you know the only thing that I 877 00:40:49,820 --> 00:40:45,150 recall is that that feeling of calm 878 00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:49,830 sedation and the purple light was with 879 00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:53,040 us for probably three or four minutes I 880 00:41:03,880 --> 00:40:59,720 it clipped off 881 00:41:07,460 --> 00:41:03,890 switched off and was gone and I remember 882 00:41:11,590 --> 00:41:07,470 that the crickets and tree frogs had not 883 00:41:13,940 --> 00:41:11,600 returned and Toby made a comment he said 884 00:41:17,420 --> 00:41:13,950 something to the effect of show's over 885 00:41:20,830 --> 00:41:17,430 or you know that's it I guess he show's 886 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:20,840 over it's exactly what he said and 887 00:41:28,340 --> 00:41:24,650 without saying a word with this thing 888 00:41:31,130 --> 00:41:28,350 3,000 feet over our heads we picked up 889 00:41:36,110 --> 00:41:31,140 our air mattresses and crawled into our 890 00:41:39,710 --> 00:41:36,120 tent through a man and my fellow on top 891 00:41:41,870 --> 00:41:39,720 of mine fully dressed and I was just 892 00:41:44,900 --> 00:41:41,880 almost asleep as soon as my head hit 893 00:41:46,610 --> 00:41:44,910 them hit the plastic till oh well I 894 00:41:49,490 --> 00:41:46,620 didn't bother to take my boots off or 895 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:49,500 shirt anything and the last thing that I 896 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:51,570 remembered was I could hear Toby already 897 00:41:57,350 --> 00:41:55,890 snoring softly and and the silence I 898 00:42:02,660 --> 00:41:57,360 noticed again that it was absolutely 899 00:42:08,180 --> 00:42:02,670 dead still and then we were both out we 900 00:42:13,250 --> 00:42:08,190 were both out of it and then some period 901 00:42:15,410 --> 00:42:13,260 of time passed I woke up because on 902 00:42:19,549 --> 00:42:15,420 lights there were these lights they were 903 00:42:21,650 --> 00:42:19,559 green and white and extremely intense 904 00:42:24,289 --> 00:42:21,660 and they were flashing through the 905 00:42:26,930 --> 00:42:24,299 canvas of the tent and that's what 906 00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:26,940 actually woke me up that and there was a 907 00:42:33,770 --> 00:42:30,720 noise there was a I called it a droning 908 00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:33,780 there was a I know at least that wasn't 909 00:42:37,700 --> 00:42:35,609 so much loud as it was powerful 910 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:37,710 if you've ever stood next to a diesel 911 00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:39,690 locomotive or a big piece of machinery 912 00:42:45,289 --> 00:42:42,960 you know alright like a big speaker at a 913 00:42:48,490 --> 00:42:45,299 concert you can feel it reverberate or 914 00:42:55,250 --> 00:42:48,500 in your chest it was that kind of a hum 915 00:42:58,789 --> 00:42:55,260 and I saw these lights and I didn't know 916 00:43:01,250 --> 00:42:58,799 yeah it didn't make any sense to me what 917 00:43:02,690 --> 00:43:01,260 they were and I thought well you know 918 00:43:04,910 --> 00:43:02,700 maybe these are the overhead lights 919 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:04,920 flashing lights of some park rangers or 920 00:43:09,530 --> 00:43:07,770 something and the noise maybe maybe it's 921 00:43:10,819 --> 00:43:09,540 somebody running a generator or in a 922 00:43:13,549 --> 00:43:10,829 truck of course that didn't make any 923 00:43:15,890 --> 00:43:13,559 sense but I didn't have my wits about me 924 00:43:18,319 --> 00:43:15,900 weren't when I woke up when I woke up I 925 00:43:23,359 --> 00:43:18,329 was just I was groggy and I was just not 926 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:23,369 that I was out of it and I sat up and I 927 00:43:34,130 --> 00:43:28,410 noticed that I hurt my every bone in my 928 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:34,140 body hurt and I glanced to my lap that 929 00:43:38,030 --> 00:43:36,930 was dark between flashes of life but the 930 00:43:41,630 --> 00:43:38,040 flashes of light 931 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:41,640 I could see Toby next to me to my left 932 00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:44,970 he was on his knees and he had a flap of 933 00:43:51,799 --> 00:43:47,280 the tent pulled back and he's looking 934 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:51,809 out out of the tent and in one of the 935 00:43:55,549 --> 00:43:52,770 flashes of light 936 00:43:58,700 --> 00:43:55,559 I could see Toby was african-american 937 00:44:02,450 --> 00:43:58,710 and his the track of his tears were real 938 00:44:04,940 --> 00:44:02,460 visible in a flash of light and I 939 00:44:06,829 --> 00:44:04,950 thought oh my god what do you know 940 00:44:10,130 --> 00:44:06,839 Toby's crying what-what would move this 941 00:44:12,620 --> 00:44:10,140 man to tears I mean I knew him we both 942 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:12,630 worked as first responders we both 943 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:15,890 bendin some you know uncomfortable 944 00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:18,210 situations and yeah he always kept his 945 00:44:25,460 --> 00:44:20,910 head and I just could not imagine what 946 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:25,470 would move this guy to tears and I'm 947 00:44:28,910 --> 00:44:28,290 still out of it and I said Toby what 948 00:44:31,820 --> 00:44:28,920 does it matter 949 00:44:33,860 --> 00:44:31,830 park rangers what's out there hey and 950 00:44:37,130 --> 00:44:33,870 quieted me and said be quiet they're 951 00:44:38,990 --> 00:44:37,140 still out there and that will actually 952 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:39,000 just a few minutes before we had that 953 00:44:42,830 --> 00:44:39,690 conversation 954 00:44:47,090 --> 00:44:42,840 I could hear a rustling of leaves and 955 00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:47,100 grass around the campsite and at one 956 00:44:56,060 --> 00:44:50,250 time to a flash of light saw shadows so 957 00:44:57,890 --> 00:44:56,070 somebody was outside and I'm coming to 958 00:45:01,340 --> 00:44:57,900 my wits I'm getting my wits back about 959 00:45:04,610 --> 00:45:01,350 me and I I get to my knees and I noticed 960 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:04,620 that my my boots were undone it's kind 961 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:05,970 of confused me because they were they 962 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:08,370 were laced up tight when I went to went 963 00:45:17,210 --> 00:45:14,330 to sleep and I got to my knees and I 964 00:45:20,420 --> 00:45:17,220 pulled back my flap of the tent and I 965 00:45:26,660 --> 00:45:20,430 looked out and I saw these little kids 966 00:45:29,150 --> 00:45:26,670 and there were maybe fifteen could have 967 00:45:32,780 --> 00:45:29,160 been as many as 18 and they were in 968 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:32,790 pairs and threes and there were little 969 00:45:38,450 --> 00:45:34,170 groups where they were wandering around 970 00:45:41,330 --> 00:45:38,460 the the floor of this metal we set up 971 00:45:43,940 --> 00:45:41,340 camp along a tree line so this open 972 00:45:46,430 --> 00:45:43,950 metal was right in front of us and 973 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:46,440 that's when I noticed that this thing 974 00:45:53,630 --> 00:45:48,930 that had been 3,000 feet over our heads 975 00:45:58,310 --> 00:45:53,640 earlier had descended and now it was 976 00:46:02,060 --> 00:45:58,320 just about 30 feet over the floor of the 977 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:02,070 metal and from the center of this thing 978 00:46:09,770 --> 00:46:05,970 was another column a white white it was 979 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:09,780 the same intensity as that column a 980 00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:11,690 white light that hit our camp fire again 981 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:15,110 like a search like cutting to gets far 982 00:46:21,470 --> 00:46:19,130 so this visible column of white light 983 00:46:23,300 --> 00:46:21,480 from the center of this thing down to 984 00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:23,310 the floor of the valley of the pardon me 985 00:46:30,350 --> 00:46:26,400 about of the meadow and these little 986 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:30,360 guys and we're watching him and I said 987 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:33,210 told me what and again I don't fully 988 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:35,010 have my wits about me and I mean totally 989 00:46:38,210 --> 00:46:37,170 why why are these kids I don't know who 990 00:46:40,850 --> 00:46:38,220 would have two kids out here in the 991 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:40,860 middle of the night and that's when he 992 00:46:46,580 --> 00:46:42,810 looked at me and he said 993 00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:46,590 little kids and he said they took us 994 00:46:52,820 --> 00:46:49,710 Terry and they hurt us and that's went 995 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:52,830 boom like flip the swish and I knew 996 00:46:59,510 --> 00:46:54,410 where I was and I knew what had happened 997 00:47:01,690 --> 00:46:59,520 and at that point I was where I had felt 998 00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:01,700 mildly sedated earlier in the evening I 999 00:47:11,900 --> 00:47:07,730 was absolutely terrified and these guys 1000 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:11,910 in pairs and in threes would walk into 1001 00:47:19,070 --> 00:47:15,810 this light and then just dissolve and 1002 00:47:20,810 --> 00:47:19,080 they'd be gone in just a pardon me it's 1003 00:47:21,380 --> 00:47:20,820 just like a beam going down to the 1004 00:47:23,900 --> 00:47:21,390 ground 1005 00:47:27,530 --> 00:47:23,910 it is this that's the light they would 1006 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:27,540 walk into yes maybe 25 feet in diameter 1007 00:47:31,850 --> 00:47:30,090 and this is where we could really get a 1008 00:47:34,670 --> 00:47:31,860 view because this thing it descended 1009 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:34,680 from 3,000 feet well that's 33 feet over 1010 00:47:38,930 --> 00:47:37,290 our heads and that's when we could get 1011 00:47:43,340 --> 00:47:38,940 an idea of just how big this thing 1012 00:47:46,340 --> 00:47:43,350 really was and it was it was enormous I 1013 00:47:50,620 --> 00:47:46,350 mean it was it was like somebody 1014 00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:53,000 and just right would you mind describing 1015 00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:55,290 it a little bit sure 1016 00:48:00,500 --> 00:47:56,640 there's a light pardon me is it like 1017 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:00,510 you're drawing yes I did a pencil sketch 1018 00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:03,570 of it in 1978 yeah just to let the 1019 00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:06,000 YouTube listeners it's up there now for 1020 00:48:10,310 --> 00:48:08,640 the youtube listener and we'll have a 1021 00:48:13,580 --> 00:48:10,320 pic with the pictures and the graphics 1022 00:48:15,770 --> 00:48:13,590 on on podcast UFO calm in the show notes 1023 00:48:19,580 --> 00:48:15,780 so anyway go ahead and describe it for 1024 00:48:21,650 --> 00:48:19,590 the listener if you would sure well it 1025 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:21,660 was amazing and it did remind me of an 1026 00:48:26,750 --> 00:48:23,010 office ability and that there were 1027 00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:26,760 lights you know there were windows here 1028 00:48:33,740 --> 00:48:29,370 and there Square and rectangular windows 1029 00:48:38,500 --> 00:48:33,750 and all along the top of though the 1030 00:48:47,030 --> 00:48:42,560 there was like an open gallery that was 1031 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:47,040 lit all the way around and we could see 1032 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:49,530 shadows and movement behind some of 1033 00:48:54,140 --> 00:48:51,570 these windows and definitely from this 1034 00:48:56,410 --> 00:48:54,150 mic observation deck or whatever it was 1035 00:49:01,280 --> 00:48:56,420 on the very top 1036 00:49:04,820 --> 00:49:01,290 I noticed too that there was a light bar 1037 00:49:08,450 --> 00:49:04,830 on each of the legs of the triangle 1038 00:49:11,300 --> 00:49:08,460 there was a light bar that ran from the 1039 00:49:13,700 --> 00:49:11,310 very bottom to the very top and I think 1040 00:49:16,010 --> 00:49:13,710 I make note of that in the drawing was 1041 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:16,020 kind of oval but it it was five story 1042 00:49:21,860 --> 00:49:18,090 tall story it ran the entire length of 1043 00:49:25,850 --> 00:49:21,870 the thing and the lights were running up 1044 00:49:29,750 --> 00:49:25,860 and down that column and I remember 1045 00:49:31,730 --> 00:49:29,760 thinking that that that's what must give 1046 00:49:38,300 --> 00:49:31,740 the illusion of a star twinkling when 1047 00:49:39,890 --> 00:49:38,310 the thing is in the sky and we I think 1048 00:49:45,020 --> 00:49:39,900 I've already mentioned that the droning 1049 00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:45,030 noise that we heard did you pardon me if 1050 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:46,800 it if you don't mind me asking if you 1051 00:49:52,940 --> 00:49:49,290 you said you saw what appeared to be 1052 00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:52,950 movement did you would you assume those 1053 00:49:59,450 --> 00:49:55,250 were figures walking back and forth and 1054 00:50:01,520 --> 00:49:59,460 like through an observation we could 1055 00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:01,530 tell there were figures I mean if we 1056 00:50:08,420 --> 00:50:04,800 couldn't make them out distinctly huh we 1057 00:50:12,290 --> 00:50:08,430 could make out shadows of outlines of 1058 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:12,300 something a lot human torso wise looking 1059 00:50:18,770 --> 00:50:16,370 thing walking back and forth or standing 1060 00:50:23,660 --> 00:50:18,780 you know and movement we could see 1061 00:50:26,410 --> 00:50:23,670 movement behind the glass to will see 1062 00:50:30,380 --> 00:50:26,420 this framing Wow 1063 00:50:33,020 --> 00:50:30,390 immediately after the last of these 1064 00:50:35,570 --> 00:50:33,030 little guys in the middle after the last 1065 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:35,580 one had stepped into the light and 1066 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:38,450 disintegrated the light flipped off and 1067 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:45,210 the droning sound stopped and we were 1068 00:50:49,700 --> 00:50:47,850 the both of us we were both still 1069 00:50:55,730 --> 00:50:49,710 underneath we were too afraid to move 1070 00:50:55,730 --> 00:50:55,740 and we watched this thing 1071 00:51:02,300 --> 00:50:58,460 lift off just like a hot-air balloon 1072 00:51:06,410 --> 00:51:02,310 would just very slowly and the lights 1073 00:51:08,839 --> 00:51:06,420 switched from yellows and greens to just 1074 00:51:12,319 --> 00:51:08,849 straight white 1075 00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:12,329 and that white light ran the beam ran up 1076 00:51:21,289 --> 00:51:17,249 and down that light bar and it moves 1077 00:51:23,569 --> 00:51:21,299 slowly at first and it got to a point in 1078 00:51:28,039 --> 00:51:23,579 the sky high enough that we rolled over 1079 00:51:31,700 --> 00:51:28,049 on our backs to watch it and we watched 1080 00:51:35,690 --> 00:51:31,710 it until it was three points of light 1081 00:51:40,489 --> 00:51:35,700 and then until it was gone and it went 1082 00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:40,499 straight up in the air and was gone yet 1083 00:51:46,460 --> 00:51:44,880 I you know I noticed that the sounds of 1084 00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:46,470 the forest had not returned at that 1085 00:51:53,779 --> 00:51:49,729 point either and we were so afraid we 1086 00:51:56,839 --> 00:51:53,789 sat there for a good 30 minutes 1087 00:51:58,999 --> 00:51:56,849 I mean Toby was hyperventilating and I 1088 00:52:00,079 --> 00:51:59,009 remember Toby you know you got to slow 1089 00:52:02,749 --> 00:52:00,089 your breathing down and you're 1090 00:52:07,249 --> 00:52:02,759 hyperventilating and we're still afraid 1091 00:52:08,690 --> 00:52:07,259 to talk above a whisper and after thirty 1092 00:52:11,420 --> 00:52:08,700 minutes Toby's like you know we got to 1093 00:52:15,910 --> 00:52:11,430 get out of here man and it sounds crazy 1094 00:52:20,319 --> 00:52:15,920 but I didn't want to be outside I felt 1095 00:52:23,359 --> 00:52:20,329 inside that tent at least I was I was I 1096 00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:23,369 felt protected I didn't want to be out 1097 00:52:31,519 --> 00:52:29,729 in the open I feel vulnerable and Toby 1098 00:52:35,989 --> 00:52:31,529 took his flashlight I took my car keys 1099 00:52:39,559 --> 00:52:35,999 in my wallet and we made a dash for the 1100 00:52:41,599 --> 00:52:39,569 car got in the car took off and we left 1101 00:52:44,029 --> 00:52:41,609 absolutely everything there we left a 1102 00:52:46,999 --> 00:52:44,039 tent without just packed yeah everything 1103 00:52:53,450 --> 00:52:47,009 we had we didn't care I don't get that's 1104 00:52:55,759 --> 00:52:53,460 exactly what I would do that's got the 1105 00:52:58,400 --> 00:52:55,769 blacktop road and headed north towards 1106 00:53:01,509 --> 00:52:58,410 the airbase and that's when we know we 1107 00:53:04,969 --> 00:53:01,519 know there were a couple of odd things 1108 00:53:06,589 --> 00:53:04,979 number one was the thirst I had never in 1109 00:53:09,499 --> 00:53:06,599 my life been so thirsty 1110 00:53:17,450 --> 00:53:09,509 Wow and and later we'd find out we were 1111 00:53:19,579 --> 00:53:17,460 severely dehydrated and Toby I Toby got 1112 00:53:22,820 --> 00:53:19,589 the worst of it I mean they hurt me but 1113 00:53:24,410 --> 00:53:22,830 they he got twice he gotta go 1114 00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:24,420 nation or whatever they gave to me 1115 00:53:30,980 --> 00:53:26,880 because he was he was sick and he was 1116 00:53:33,140 --> 00:53:30,990 hurting and he had curled up into a ball 1117 00:53:36,170 --> 00:53:33,150 in the feudal position Kenneth's on this 1118 00:53:39,190 --> 00:53:36,180 bench seat of the soul and pala and he's 1119 00:53:41,240 --> 00:53:39,200 like man get me something to drink weena 1120 00:53:44,090 --> 00:53:41,250 like we know I'm looking 1121 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:44,100 this is 1977 and there was very little 1122 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:47,370 down there it's just Oh Sark's it was at 1123 00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:51,050 that time nothing I mean it was just 1124 00:53:58,190 --> 00:53:54,450 mostly farmland little towns here and 1125 00:54:01,220 --> 00:53:58,200 there but it was just too lane backed 1126 00:54:03,530 --> 00:54:01,230 blacktop road all right let's let's 1127 00:54:06,610 --> 00:54:03,540 let's cut it right there and I made note 1128 00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:06,620 of that we're gonna jump right back on 1129 00:54:13,220 --> 00:54:09,810 on the road here and and right now we 1130 00:54:14,930 --> 00:54:13,230 have to go for a break and so we'll get 1131 00:54:15,650 --> 00:54:14,940 right back to that now this is really 1132 00:54:18,110 --> 00:54:15,660 fascinating 1133 00:54:21,650 --> 00:54:18,120 all right everyone this is Martin Willis 1134 00:54:25,430 --> 00:54:21,660 I'm on with Terry Lovelace and this is 1135 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:25,440 podcast UFO on kgr a radio we'll be 1136 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:26,490 right back right after these messages 1137 00:54:40,910 --> 00:54:37,370 all right Martin we're good let's see we 1138 00:54:44,990 --> 00:54:40,920 did another count one two three four 1139 00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:45,000 minutes plus or minus 20 seconds brother 1140 00:54:50,930 --> 00:54:48,450 all right sounds good thank you all 1141 00:54:54,530 --> 00:54:50,940 right so at this time I'm going to take 1142 00:54:57,170 --> 00:54:54,540 a quick look in for the second hour here 1143 00:54:58,790 --> 00:54:57,180 we will take we'll take some calls and I 1144 00:55:02,210 --> 00:54:58,800 do know that there's one person that 1145 00:55:03,770 --> 00:55:02,220 really wants to call in here wanted to 1146 00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:03,780 see and I have I have a bunch of 1147 00:55:07,220 --> 00:55:05,010 questions for you as you're going along 1148 00:55:13,100 --> 00:55:07,230 tell them this story that I want to talk 1149 00:55:14,450 --> 00:55:13,110 about but but still right now just I'm 1150 00:55:15,740 --> 00:55:14,460 gonna I don't see any questions anyone 1151 00:55:17,359 --> 00:55:15,750 wants to post a question in the chat 1152 00:55:19,340 --> 00:55:17,369 room right now while we're on break feel 1153 00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:19,350 free to do so and I'll try to get to one 1154 00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:23,250 or two your questions but have you ever 1155 00:55:28,310 --> 00:55:24,450 heard of Dave Marlar 1156 00:55:30,530 --> 00:55:28,320 I have not okay Dave Marlar focuses on 1157 00:55:31,910 --> 00:55:30,540 triangle UFOs he'd be very interested in 1158 00:55:33,770 --> 00:55:31,920 talking to you I mean I know he would 1159 00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:33,780 and by the way for the listening 1160 00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:36,960 audience Dave is coming up he's gonna be 1161 00:55:43,130 --> 00:55:40,650 up on December 22nd I believe it is 1162 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:43,140 what's exactly the it's actually the 1163 00:55:48,710 --> 00:55:45,450 weekend but I'm not gonna run the show 1164 00:55:51,020 --> 00:55:48,720 on Christmas Day so he's gonna be up on 1165 00:55:52,070 --> 00:55:51,030 December 22nd Dave Marla would love to 1166 00:55:54,980 --> 00:55:52,080 hear this story 1167 00:55:57,380 --> 00:55:54,990 he has written books on triangle UFOs 1168 00:55:58,790 --> 00:55:57,390 because the reason I say I know Dave 1169 00:56:02,660 --> 00:55:58,800 would really like to hear this because 1170 00:56:06,980 --> 00:56:02,670 there's not a ton of triangle UFOs prior 1171 00:56:09,230 --> 00:56:06,990 to you know the last decade or two 1172 00:56:11,210 --> 00:56:09,240 there's not a ton of them in the 70s 1173 00:56:13,130 --> 00:56:11,220 however I've heard of you know several 1174 00:56:16,300 --> 00:56:13,140 of them but there's not like a ton now 1175 00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:16,310 there seems to be a lot of triangle UFOs 1176 00:56:25,310 --> 00:56:19,770 that are reported so let me just see if 1177 00:56:28,750 --> 00:56:25,320 I have any and have you have you since 1178 00:56:31,910 --> 00:56:28,760 you came out with this book have you 1179 00:56:34,310 --> 00:56:31,920 contacted any because you can go way 1180 00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:34,320 back I know this is back in 77 but you 1181 00:56:39,050 --> 00:56:36,330 can go you can still report a UFO 1182 00:56:41,750 --> 00:56:39,060 sighting now that happened all the way 1183 00:56:46,030 --> 00:56:41,760 back then are you aware that you know I 1184 00:56:48,070 --> 00:56:46,040 did what I called MUFON 1185 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:48,080 and there there's some very good people 1186 00:56:59,470 --> 00:56:51,170 that move on I know and I called the 1187 00:57:02,170 --> 00:56:59,480 Dallas MUFON folks back in 2014 and a 1188 00:57:08,590 --> 00:57:02,180 guy came out to talk to me and I showed 1189 00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:08,600 him the x-rays of my leg and he was kind 1190 00:57:14,590 --> 00:57:12,890 of all kind of dismissive of them and so 1191 00:57:18,370 --> 00:57:14,600 I don't not a radiologist I don't know 1192 00:57:20,460 --> 00:57:18,380 what these are and in fairness you don't 1193 00:57:25,030 --> 00:57:20,470 need a medical degree to see this thing 1194 00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:25,040 and he said uh you know this is in 1977 1195 00:57:30,700 --> 00:57:27,530 I don't know what you know what much we 1196 00:57:32,470 --> 00:57:30,710 could do for you now so he took a report 1197 00:57:38,500 --> 00:57:32,480 and that was that was pretty much it 1198 00:57:41,530 --> 00:57:38,510 about that yeah yeah I think you know 1199 00:57:44,020 --> 00:57:41,540 your story is extraordinary you know we 1200 00:57:46,570 --> 00:57:44,030 will get into the implant or whatever it 1201 00:57:49,870 --> 00:57:46,580 is in your leg you know later on and and 1202 00:57:51,850 --> 00:57:49,880 as we go here the story itself is 1203 00:57:54,940 --> 00:57:51,860 extraordinary and what happens after 1204 00:57:58,270 --> 00:57:54,950 that which will continue on in the end 1205 00:58:00,640 --> 00:57:58,280 the second part of this and again we 1206 00:58:08,350 --> 00:58:00,650 will take we will take some questions 1207 00:58:10,930 --> 00:58:08,360 and so has anyone else contacted you and 1208 00:58:12,670 --> 00:58:10,940 talked about a similar situation 1209 00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:12,680 happening to them since you came out 1210 00:58:17,830 --> 00:58:15,170 with this book you know what I did was 1211 00:58:22,210 --> 00:58:17,840 in the epilogue of my book I I put down 1212 00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:22,220 an email address Lovelace man Pope at 1213 00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:25,730 gmail.com and I said in the epilogue I 1214 00:58:29,380 --> 00:58:27,440 said look I'm not a therapist or a 1215 00:58:31,210 --> 00:58:29,390 doctor but you know if you've had an 1216 00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:31,220 experience like this and you'd like to 1217 00:58:37,390 --> 00:58:34,570 discuss it I'd be happy to talk to you I 1218 00:58:42,730 --> 00:58:37,400 said I promise I answer every every 1219 00:58:47,590 --> 00:58:42,740 email and I've got almost 400 since 1220 00:58:50,170 --> 00:58:47,600 March right Wow that is totally amazing 1221 00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:50,180 and I that's really great that you did 1222 00:58:54,310 --> 00:58:52,010 that I think race are we ready to go 1223 00:58:56,590 --> 00:58:54,320 back yes sir was your honor 1224 00:58:57,490 --> 00:58:56,600 okay how many seconds we got left mr. 1225 00:58:59,770 --> 00:58:57,500 love legs you ready 1226 00:59:02,260 --> 00:58:59,780 I certainly am Arden you also 1227 00:59:04,060 --> 00:59:02,270 we are all set here all right here we go 1228 00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:04,070 we're going commercial-free for the 1229 00:59:13,870 --> 00:59:07,610 final hour here yeah yeah five four 1230 00:59:16,510 --> 00:59:13,880 three two all right welcome back this is 1231 00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:16,520 Martin Willis podcast UFO my guest is 1232 00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:19,970 Terry Lovelace and when we left for the 1233 00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:21,920 last break we were talking about him 1234 00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:24,050 getting the heck out of there and saying 1235 00:59:27,850 --> 00:59:26,090 that he was kind of uh driving along in 1236 00:59:33,250 --> 00:59:27,860 a place where there wasn't much going on 1237 00:59:36,850 --> 00:59:33,260 uh Terry did you feel like calling who 1238 00:59:39,550 --> 00:59:36,860 you know who would you call did you feel 1239 00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:39,560 like reporting this somehow or just 1240 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:40,970 getting the heck out of there was what 1241 00:59:46,300 --> 00:59:41,810 what came to mind 1242 00:59:49,630 --> 00:59:46,310 well what two things was to put as much 1243 00:59:54,460 --> 00:59:49,640 distance between us and Devil's Den as 1244 00:59:56,770 --> 00:59:54,470 we could and thirst the thirst was 1245 00:59:58,120 --> 00:59:56,780 absolutely incredible and getting 1246 01:00:01,690 --> 00:59:58,130 something to drink getting something 1247 01:00:03,460 --> 01:00:01,700 liquid in us was priority number one and 1248 01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:03,470 we drove for over an hour before he 1249 01:00:12,690 --> 01:00:07,250 found a little local place and it was 1250 01:00:15,100 --> 01:00:12,700 dawn at that time and we pulled in and 1251 01:00:17,470 --> 01:00:15,110 we went in and I I went to the bathroom 1252 01:00:19,330 --> 01:00:17,480 and I splashed some water in my face and 1253 01:00:22,540 --> 01:00:19,340 I noticed that as the Sun was coming up 1254 01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:22,550 I was just photo phobic I just the light 1255 01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:26,570 just was like sand in my eyes and I went 1256 01:00:31,230 --> 01:00:29,090 and I splashed water on my face and I 1257 01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:31,240 pulled up my shirt and I splashed water 1258 01:00:38,350 --> 01:00:33,530 and that's when I notice how red I was 1259 01:00:41,410 --> 01:00:38,360 my eyes were swollen my entire body was 1260 01:00:44,740 --> 01:00:41,420 like sunburned I didn't didn't blister 1261 01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:44,750 anywhere but the scalp on my head I 1262 01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:47,450 think had a hair at that time the scalp 1263 01:00:52,060 --> 01:00:49,490 on my head the soles of my feet under my 1264 01:00:56,050 --> 01:00:52,070 arms every every place the soles of your 1265 01:01:02,170 --> 01:00:56,060 feet yes every place every every stuck 1266 01:01:06,310 --> 01:01:02,180 in my body was sunburned Wow burned and 1267 01:01:08,350 --> 01:01:06,320 I I held my hands under this faucet and 1268 01:01:11,770 --> 01:01:08,360 I drank as much as I could hold and I 1269 01:01:12,990 --> 01:01:11,780 was still thirsty I opened the door and 1270 01:01:14,490 --> 01:01:13,000 here's Toby stay 1271 01:01:16,790 --> 01:01:14,500 then against his post like he's about 1272 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:16,800 ready to fall over and his eyes are just 1273 01:01:26,850 --> 01:01:24,010 he's face face too swollen and he came 1274 01:01:29,130 --> 01:01:26,860 in and I went and I got a Sabourin soda 1275 01:01:33,510 --> 01:01:29,140 and he bought some a gallon of grape aid 1276 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:33,520 and we headed back up toward the airbase 1277 01:01:38,700 --> 01:01:36,610 and I remember thinking a couple odd 1278 01:01:42,330 --> 01:01:38,710 things happen again and that was I 1279 01:01:45,060 --> 01:01:42,340 remember thinking if he falls asleep as 1280 01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:45,070 I finished my six cans of my orange soda 1281 01:01:51,930 --> 01:01:49,690 in like no time and he was asleep and he 1282 01:01:53,940 --> 01:01:51,940 had about a third of that left in his 1283 01:01:55,740 --> 01:01:53,950 container and I thought I can't drink 1284 01:01:58,980 --> 01:01:55,750 that I could take that from him and 1285 01:02:01,320 --> 01:01:58,990 he'll never know Wow and that's not I 1286 01:02:04,020 --> 01:02:01,330 don't think that way yeah That's not me 1287 01:02:06,930 --> 01:02:04,030 and I remember thinking well where did 1288 01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:06,940 it come from and this is the oddest 1289 01:02:15,150 --> 01:02:11,290 emotion but hearing the sky was my best 1290 01:02:16,260 --> 01:02:15,160 friend we work together our wives were 1291 01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:16,270 best of friends 1292 01:02:20,910 --> 01:02:18,970 we socialized together played cards 1293 01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:20,920 barbecue just we were the best of 1294 01:02:25,830 --> 01:02:23,650 friends and for some reason I didn't 1295 01:02:29,690 --> 01:02:25,840 want anything to do with the guy really 1296 01:02:32,370 --> 01:02:29,700 and I don't understand that emotion I 1297 01:02:37,380 --> 01:02:32,380 didn't understand it then I don't 1298 01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:37,390 understand it to this day but that 1299 01:02:41,910 --> 01:02:40,090 that's what happened we got back to the 1300 01:02:43,380 --> 01:02:41,920 airbase just a second there if you 1301 01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:43,390 wouldn't mind do you think that was a 1302 01:02:50,790 --> 01:02:45,610 mutual feeling did you feel the same way 1303 01:02:54,570 --> 01:02:50,800 from him Toby was different well we were 1304 01:02:58,190 --> 01:02:54,580 both different I mean that whatever we 1305 01:03:01,890 --> 01:02:58,200 what we went through was some changed us 1306 01:03:05,220 --> 01:03:01,900 I mean so much that I can tend to think 1307 01:03:08,820 --> 01:03:05,230 of my life in terms of three 1977 and 1308 01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:08,830 post 1977 it I mean it was an event in 1309 01:03:13,110 --> 01:03:10,570 my life like the birth of my children or 1310 01:03:20,220 --> 01:03:13,120 something it wasn't a major life event 1311 01:03:22,770 --> 01:03:20,230 yeah when we got back to the airbase we 1312 01:03:25,830 --> 01:03:22,780 were both hospitalized and they put us 1313 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:25,840 in I remember thinking you know we get 1314 01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:26,970 private rooms 1315 01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:28,650 well at that time enlisted men didn't 1316 01:03:35,359 --> 01:03:30,210 get private room so you would have a 1317 01:03:40,130 --> 01:03:35,369 room on an open ward and I thought that 1318 01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:40,140 was I and they kept us separated and 1319 01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:42,810 what I found out later happened was the 1320 01:03:51,050 --> 01:03:46,010 park rangers had found our campsite and 1321 01:03:55,069 --> 01:03:51,060 inside Toby's backpack was his address 1322 01:03:57,349 --> 01:03:55,079 and that's how the park rangers got 1323 01:03:59,660 --> 01:03:57,359 ahold of us I got ahold of the base and 1324 01:04:03,520 --> 01:03:59,670 that's how the security police got 1325 01:04:08,569 --> 01:04:03,530 involved Wow slow 1326 01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:08,579 it was the second night to get into the 1327 01:04:16,670 --> 01:04:14,010 bit about the security police Mike the 1328 01:04:19,970 --> 01:04:16,680 hospital commander was there and he he 1329 01:04:21,859 --> 01:04:19,980 told me he said we're you know I think 1330 01:04:23,930 --> 01:04:21,869 he used the word higher-ups or some BOTS 1331 01:04:26,359 --> 01:04:23,940 not something like he said they want you 1332 01:04:28,579 --> 01:04:26,369 guys you guys are to stay apart where 1333 01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:28,589 you know you're gonna have no contact 1334 01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:30,240 with Toby he's they have no contact with 1335 01:04:38,089 --> 01:04:35,970 you and I didn't understand that and I 1336 01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:38,099 was hospitalized for three days and two 1337 01:04:44,300 --> 01:04:40,770 nights on the evening before I was going 1338 01:04:47,270 --> 01:04:44,310 to be discharged my evening nurse came 1339 01:04:49,970 --> 01:04:47,280 in I we both worked in the hospital I 1340 01:04:52,010 --> 01:04:49,980 knew everyone in the hospital and she 1341 01:04:54,349 --> 01:04:52,020 came in with an injection for some pain 1342 01:04:56,359 --> 01:04:54,359 medicine and they kept the lights off in 1343 01:05:00,680 --> 01:04:56,369 the room because I had my eyes hurt so 1344 01:05:06,319 --> 01:05:00,690 bad and behind her came two guys in 1345 01:05:09,290 --> 01:05:06,329 suits and these guys I mean they they 1346 01:05:10,910 --> 01:05:09,300 they were cops I mean look at him and 1347 01:05:14,569 --> 01:05:10,920 tell they weren't they were they carry 1348 01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:14,579 themselves with Authority and I just 1349 01:05:25,010 --> 01:05:16,319 knew they were police and I wearing 1350 01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:25,020 black many black blue suits but they the 1351 01:05:31,550 --> 01:05:29,130 older guy had that flattop haircut like 1352 01:05:33,620 --> 01:05:31,560 they used to wear you know in the 60s 1353 01:05:38,279 --> 01:05:33,630 and a real square jaw real real tough 1354 01:05:41,099 --> 01:05:38,289 guy kind of kind of look about them 1355 01:05:43,289 --> 01:05:41,109 and I remember he said to the nurse if 1356 01:05:45,479 --> 01:05:43,299 that's gonna sedate him it's gonna have 1357 01:05:49,140 --> 01:05:45,489 to wait we need to ask sergeant Lovelace 1358 01:05:50,599 --> 01:05:49,150 a few questions and he said and shut the 1359 01:05:54,569 --> 01:05:50,609 door on your way out 1360 01:05:58,919 --> 01:05:54,579 and she left in a huff and shut the door 1361 01:06:00,929 --> 01:05:58,929 why did he get my pain medicine and this 1362 01:06:03,809 --> 01:06:00,939 guy he clicked on the overhead lights 1363 01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:03,819 and I'm like sir could you could you 1364 01:06:10,890 --> 01:06:08,650 please turn those off and it started off 1365 01:06:13,229 --> 01:06:10,900 he said you know no gotta see what we're 1366 01:06:18,419 --> 01:06:13,239 doing her son can't work in a dark can 1367 01:06:20,130 --> 01:06:18,429 we and in unison they they were they 1368 01:06:22,079 --> 01:06:20,140 operator there was I asked to see their 1369 01:06:23,549 --> 01:06:22,089 IDs they showed me their IDs one was so 1370 01:06:27,929 --> 01:06:23,559 the older guy was a major the younger 1371 01:06:30,599 --> 01:06:27,939 guy was a captain and I refer to in the 1372 01:06:33,959 --> 01:06:30,609 book is agent Gregory was the major the 1373 01:06:37,769 --> 01:06:33,969 older guy and he swooped off everything 1374 01:06:39,659 --> 01:06:37,779 off the top of my tray table and kind of 1375 01:06:41,729 --> 01:06:39,669 rolled it over while he's doing that the 1376 01:06:45,299 --> 01:06:41,739 captain cranks up my bed so I'm in a 1377 01:06:48,089 --> 01:06:45,309 sitting position and pulls his table 1378 01:06:52,799 --> 01:06:48,099 underneath me and and starts asking me 1379 01:06:54,749 --> 01:06:52,809 questions and you know I years later I'd 1380 01:06:57,359 --> 01:06:54,759 come to recognize what they were doing 1381 01:06:59,459 --> 01:06:57,369 with what he was doing was kind of 1382 01:07:03,239 --> 01:06:59,469 standard interrogation kind of technique 1383 01:07:05,459 --> 01:07:03,249 he would he would ask me mixed yes-or-no 1384 01:07:10,829 --> 01:07:05,469 questions and then go ballistic if I got 1385 01:07:13,370 --> 01:07:10,839 it wrong like for instance he said now 1386 01:07:17,159 --> 01:07:13,380 did you guys stay in the park that night 1387 01:07:21,569 --> 01:07:17,169 and I thought he was referring you to 1388 01:07:23,969 --> 01:07:21,579 the campground and I said no sir and he 1389 01:07:28,559 --> 01:07:23,979 went ballistic and said well where did 1390 01:07:31,380 --> 01:07:28,569 you stay the hill expletives deleted and 1391 01:07:34,229 --> 01:07:31,390 like what no I we didn't stay in a 1392 01:07:36,530 --> 01:07:34,239 campground and he said I'll let that one 1393 01:07:38,689 --> 01:07:36,540 go because you just might be that stupid 1394 01:07:42,449 --> 01:07:38,699 [Laughter] 1395 01:07:46,589 --> 01:07:42,459 yeah the whole point of the exercise was 1396 01:07:47,909 --> 01:07:46,599 intimidation and sure I I'm scared to 1397 01:07:51,069 --> 01:07:47,919 death I'm thinking my guy that we burn 1398 01:07:55,539 --> 01:07:51,079 the forest down you know 1399 01:07:57,130 --> 01:07:55,549 happen and he said he called me son 1400 01:07:59,259 --> 01:07:57,140 he started almost every sentence that he 1401 01:08:01,150 --> 01:07:59,269 dressed with a son and he said son I 1402 01:08:05,259 --> 01:08:01,160 want to know what you and your buddy 1403 01:08:07,959 --> 01:08:05,269 were down there doing and well why did 1404 01:08:10,089 --> 01:08:07,969 you leave all your stuff down there did 1405 01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:10,099 you my only guess is you planned on 1406 01:08:13,420 --> 01:08:11,450 coming back right away 1407 01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:13,430 and he said what do you have a little 1408 01:08:17,289 --> 01:08:14,930 marijuana plant going down there a 1409 01:08:19,510 --> 01:08:17,299 little marijuana plant or something and 1410 01:08:21,370 --> 01:08:19,520 that scared me to death and I thought oh 1411 01:08:25,899 --> 01:08:21,380 my god you know because if somebody 1412 01:08:28,539 --> 01:08:25,909 weren't growing marijuana down there you 1413 01:08:36,099 --> 01:08:28,549 know we could try to hang it on us so 1414 01:08:38,260 --> 01:08:36,109 I'm I'm very much intimidated and he got 1415 01:08:39,910 --> 01:08:38,270 through some his briefcase he pulled out 1416 01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:39,920 some forms and made some forms in front 1417 01:08:45,879 --> 01:08:44,330 of me and he said I'm gonna read you 1418 01:08:50,339 --> 01:08:45,889 your rights and he read me my rights 1419 01:08:54,490 --> 01:08:50,349 she knows didn't make me feel any better 1420 01:08:57,339 --> 01:08:54,500 and he laid out these six forms and he 1421 01:09:00,430 --> 01:08:57,349 handed me a pen and I said sir what I 1422 01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:00,440 need and he said son these are waivers 1423 01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:02,690 and consents please give us right to 1424 01:09:09,459 --> 01:09:05,330 take a look in your car and to take a 1425 01:09:13,300 --> 01:09:09,469 look in your house son and I said sir 1426 01:09:14,829 --> 01:09:13,310 why and he said what would make sure 1427 01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:14,839 that you're not hiding anything you 1428 01:09:19,990 --> 01:09:16,130 don't have anything that you shouldn't 1429 01:09:21,609 --> 01:09:20,000 have do ya and you know I was 22 years 1430 01:09:23,910 --> 01:09:21,619 old I didn't have the benefit of a law 1431 01:09:26,289 --> 01:09:23,920 degree I mean as young I was dumb I 1432 01:09:28,629 --> 01:09:26,299 didn't know to ask for an attorney I 1433 01:09:29,979 --> 01:09:28,639 thought well if I don't cooperate this 1434 01:09:32,890 --> 01:09:29,989 guy's gonna think I'm trying to hide 1435 01:09:34,599 --> 01:09:32,900 something you know I didn't want to tell 1436 01:09:35,829 --> 01:09:34,609 him yeah I just saw a UFO the size of an 1437 01:09:38,349 --> 01:09:35,839 office building I didn't want to say 1438 01:09:45,839 --> 01:09:43,419 so what his what the point is they could 1439 01:09:48,510 --> 01:09:45,849 jump - the point was he wanted to know 1440 01:09:50,589 --> 01:09:48,520 he asked me after we looked at a lot of 1441 01:09:52,809 --> 01:09:50,599 interrogation he said I want to know 1442 01:09:56,350 --> 01:09:52,819 exactly how many photographs she took 1443 01:10:01,030 --> 01:09:56,360 once you entered the Clark and I said 1444 01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:01,040 sorry I didn't take any at all and he 1445 01:10:04,540 --> 01:10:02,690 got down in my face and said I don't 1446 01:10:08,140 --> 01:10:04,550 believe you 1447 01:10:09,939 --> 01:10:08,150 and I said sir I did I did not take sing 1448 01:10:12,879 --> 01:10:09,949 god I wish I did I wish I'd taken a 1449 01:10:18,399 --> 01:10:12,889 dozen photographs and held them and hid 1450 01:10:20,379 --> 01:10:18,409 the film what I didn't and the nurse 1451 01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:20,389 came back and said you know doctor 1452 01:10:24,129 --> 01:10:21,770 what's lovely is to have his pain meds 1453 01:10:25,689 --> 01:10:24,139 right now so I'll bring the doctor down 1454 01:10:27,370 --> 01:10:25,699 here if you'd like and the majors like 1455 01:10:30,370 --> 01:10:27,380 no no no I think we're about done here 1456 01:10:32,589 --> 01:10:30,380 and the captain leaves the room the 1457 01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:32,599 nurse leaves the room and this major 1458 01:10:40,030 --> 01:10:34,730 kind of shuts the door and he gets down 1459 01:10:44,709 --> 01:10:40,040 right next to my ear and he says son I 1460 01:10:46,990 --> 01:10:44,719 know and you know that you two 1461 01:10:49,959 --> 01:10:47,000 knuckleheads stumbled onto something out 1462 01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:49,969 there didn't you Wow and I think you 1463 01:10:57,700 --> 01:10:52,250 know what I mean I think you know what I 1464 01:11:01,180 --> 01:10:57,710 mean sergeant and I said sir I and I 1465 01:11:03,939 --> 01:11:01,190 didn't say yes we didn't say no and he 1466 01:11:08,049 --> 01:11:03,949 says I want to know how many pictures 1467 01:11:11,879 --> 01:11:08,059 you took of it and that's what I do did 1468 01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:11,889 he say did he say of it uh-huh 1469 01:11:20,500 --> 01:11:16,130 Wow and that's what he said for the 1470 01:11:22,089 --> 01:11:20,510 second time I don't believe you now can 1471 01:11:25,330 --> 01:11:22,099 we just just pause here for just a 1472 01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:25,340 second do you think that they possibly 1473 01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:29,690 had radar information on this craft and 1474 01:11:35,669 --> 01:11:33,650 your general location and time how do 1475 01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:35,679 you think they put the pieces together I 1476 01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:37,520 think that's right 1477 01:11:44,470 --> 01:11:39,050 I think it must have been probably a 1478 01:11:49,060 --> 01:11:44,480 radar return white minister and still is 1479 01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:49,070 a nuclear base and so and there are 1480 01:11:54,189 --> 01:11:51,530 there are some other Army and Air Force 1481 01:11:57,549 --> 01:11:54,199 bases all all in the area so I'm sure 1482 01:12:01,629 --> 01:11:57,559 that that there was probably a radar 1483 01:12:03,750 --> 01:12:01,639 return on this thing I'm guessing could 1484 01:12:06,010 --> 01:12:03,760 have been the Park Rangers reported it 1485 01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:06,020 you know I don't know what they call 1486 01:12:13,299 --> 01:12:09,290 ever known yeah the Rangers that very 1487 01:12:16,510 --> 01:12:13,309 well could have been hmm Wow and was 1488 01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:16,520 there any other did you see these two 1489 01:12:20,500 --> 01:12:18,290 fellows again was there any 1490 01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:20,510 other thing they asked you to do or not 1491 01:12:24,090 --> 01:12:22,970 do and by the way did you sign all the 1492 01:12:26,410 --> 01:12:24,100 forms 1493 01:12:29,050 --> 01:12:26,420 mind everything they sat in front of me 1494 01:12:30,700 --> 01:12:29,060 and and I couldn't read a word of it be 1495 01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:30,710 honest with me I was too scared and my 1496 01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:34,130 eyes were almost swollen shut and I had 1497 01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:35,930 signed a consent for them to search my 1498 01:12:43,470 --> 01:12:40,850 car and switch my home and and they did 1499 01:12:49,150 --> 01:12:43,480 and scared the hell out of my poor wife 1500 01:12:50,500 --> 01:12:49,160 yeah they took I had some photographs I 1501 01:12:53,410 --> 01:12:50,510 said there wasn't much you could 1502 01:12:54,850 --> 01:12:53,420 photograph on the base I had a new 1503 01:12:56,410 --> 01:12:54,860 telephoto lens and I took a lot of 1504 01:12:59,650 --> 01:12:56,420 photographs I was fascinated with the 1505 01:13:02,070 --> 01:12:59,660 full moon for some reason and I took a 1506 01:13:04,510 --> 01:13:02,080 bunch of pictures of the full moon and 1507 01:13:07,750 --> 01:13:04,520 developed them and they took all of 1508 01:13:11,770 --> 01:13:07,760 those I never got this back recent I 1509 01:13:14,740 --> 01:13:11,780 don't know they took my car I head on 1510 01:13:19,270 --> 01:13:14,750 Toby had drawn a map when we went into 1511 01:13:23,140 --> 01:13:19,280 this park he had the foresight to grab a 1512 01:13:25,540 --> 01:13:23,150 bank paper out of the glove box and a 1513 01:13:28,150 --> 01:13:25,550 little pencil and threw us a crude map 1514 01:13:31,660 --> 01:13:28,160 of where we went and how we got to where 1515 01:13:34,900 --> 01:13:31,670 we were and he relied on that and a 1516 01:13:37,080 --> 01:13:34,910 flashlight to get us out of that park at 1517 01:13:40,450 --> 01:13:37,090 night if we hadn't had that to rely on 1518 01:13:46,930 --> 01:13:40,460 we I don't know where we didn't end it 1519 01:13:51,190 --> 01:13:46,940 up but they wanted that map yeah their 1520 01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:51,200 agent Gregory laid out a a map of the of 1521 01:13:56,380 --> 01:13:53,210 the park and said now where did you stay 1522 01:13:59,290 --> 01:13:56,390 and I said from what I could make out I 1523 01:14:03,160 --> 01:13:59,300 said well the map ends here we went over 1524 01:14:06,130 --> 01:14:03,170 here and he asked me to draw a picture 1525 01:14:08,980 --> 01:14:06,140 of this meadow as if I were looking from 1526 01:14:11,050 --> 01:14:08,990 above and wanted me to put you know an X 1527 01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:11,060 where we set the tent draw a little box 1528 01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:13,370 for the car estimate the length and the 1529 01:14:23,830 --> 01:14:20,810 width just all these things and but 1530 01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:23,840 before he before he left after he said 1531 01:14:28,150 --> 01:14:25,850 you know I you two knuckleheads stumbled 1532 01:14:30,610 --> 01:14:28,160 onto this and I don't believe you I 1533 01:14:31,739 --> 01:14:30,620 think I smiled and turn the lights off 1534 01:14:35,850 --> 01:14:31,749 for me 1535 01:14:38,580 --> 01:14:35,860 and what huh strange guy yeah bizarre 1536 01:14:41,310 --> 01:14:38,590 well what did that when you were in the 1537 01:14:44,930 --> 01:14:41,320 hospital what was what did they say were 1538 01:14:48,089 --> 01:14:44,940 test results what was going on with you 1539 01:14:50,399 --> 01:14:48,099 there was a lot they took a lot of blood 1540 01:14:51,750 --> 01:14:50,409 from me and they told me that we were 1541 01:14:55,620 --> 01:14:51,760 severely dehydrated 1542 01:14:58,319 --> 01:14:55,630 I knew the doctors and I didn't knew the 1543 01:15:01,589 --> 01:14:58,329 nurses and there was an older doctor 1544 01:15:05,609 --> 01:15:01,599 there who a full-bird colonel who was 1545 01:15:09,049 --> 01:15:05,619 near retirement who came and talked to 1546 01:15:11,969 --> 01:15:09,059 me the last day of my hospitalization 1547 01:15:14,100 --> 01:15:11,979 and he came in and sat down on my bed 1548 01:15:16,020 --> 01:15:14,110 and he was kind of almost like a senile 1549 01:15:19,229 --> 01:15:16,030 bit of a I think there was a bit of 1550 01:15:21,149 --> 01:15:19,239 senility going on there and he sat on my 1551 01:15:22,950 --> 01:15:21,159 bed and he said well we got all the lab 1552 01:15:25,410 --> 01:15:22,960 tests back and everything's perfectly 1553 01:15:27,270 --> 01:15:25,420 explainable what happened was when you 1554 01:15:28,890 --> 01:15:27,280 two guys laid on that rock up there 1555 01:15:31,890 --> 01:15:28,900 there there must have been some natural 1556 01:15:33,660 --> 01:15:31,900 radiation in that rock but you know 1557 01:15:35,729 --> 01:15:33,670 nobody needs to know that you know but 1558 01:15:39,180 --> 01:15:35,739 you know that's you know nobody needs to 1559 01:15:41,129 --> 01:15:39,190 know that and you know I think that's 1560 01:15:44,459 --> 01:15:41,139 what what led to your burns and made you 1561 01:15:47,189 --> 01:15:44,469 guys so sick and he said well and and 1562 01:15:50,219 --> 01:15:47,199 that and you didn't use enough enough 1563 01:15:52,379 --> 01:15:50,229 sunscreen and I wanted to say look I you 1564 01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:52,389 know I never took my shirt off never 1565 01:15:57,930 --> 01:15:55,090 took my head off but you know I didn't 1566 01:16:00,149 --> 01:15:57,940 say anything and any system that struck 1567 01:16:02,489 --> 01:16:00,159 me as odd he said you know we've given 1568 01:16:06,359 --> 01:16:02,499 you some medicine and it's gonna make it 1569 01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:06,369 have some funny dreams and he says when 1570 01:16:11,459 --> 01:16:08,050 you have one of these dreams the best 1571 01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:11,469 thing to do is not talk about it just 1572 01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:13,210 get it off your mind and ignore it and 1573 01:16:18,330 --> 01:16:16,449 they'll go away and I thought about that 1574 01:16:19,259 --> 01:16:18,340 you know he's telling me not to talk 1575 01:16:25,169 --> 01:16:19,269 about my dreams 1576 01:16:28,709 --> 01:16:25,179 that's it seems I and that's about all 1577 01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:28,719 the diagnosis we got that and what I 1578 01:16:36,029 --> 01:16:30,489 referred to in the book is the bucket of 1579 01:16:37,529 --> 01:16:36,039 pills they discharged us both with these 1580 01:16:41,419 --> 01:16:37,539 capsules they were generic looking 1581 01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:41,429 capsules and I was to take three a day 1582 01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:44,930 pregnant three times a day I'd take 1583 01:16:51,910 --> 01:16:47,810 capsules morning afternoon and evening 1584 01:16:54,430 --> 01:16:51,920 and they sent a nurse to my house every 1585 01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:54,440 evening to do a pill count to make sure 1586 01:17:00,220 --> 01:16:57,050 that I had taken the medicine now and 1587 01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:00,230 this nurse that came I did not recognize 1588 01:17:05,020 --> 01:17:01,730 and I knew everybody in the hospital 1589 01:17:08,770 --> 01:17:05,030 squadron and she did not wear a nametag 1590 01:17:10,750 --> 01:17:08,780 and she was all business she never once 1591 01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:10,760 asked me how I felt if my blood pressure 1592 01:17:14,980 --> 01:17:13,130 she was there to count the pills to make 1593 01:17:18,370 --> 01:17:14,990 sure that I'd taken their daily 1594 01:17:19,930 --> 01:17:18,380 allotment and about the third or fourth 1595 01:17:24,150 --> 01:17:19,940 day end of this my wife knows you know 1596 01:17:26,740 --> 01:17:24,160 you're really loopy you are out of it 1597 01:17:30,040 --> 01:17:26,750 and I'm like you know I don't I don't 1598 01:17:34,300 --> 01:17:30,050 feel right and she says you know I think 1599 01:17:38,470 --> 01:17:34,310 it's those toes you're taking and I said 1600 01:17:40,510 --> 01:17:38,480 yeah maybe maybe and she was right and I 1601 01:17:42,130 --> 01:17:40,520 stopped taking him immediately and what 1602 01:17:44,350 --> 01:17:42,140 I do is I flush three of them down 1603 01:17:45,580 --> 01:17:44,360 tutorial at the times that I was 1604 01:17:47,020 --> 01:17:45,590 supposed to take them because I didn't 1605 01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:47,030 know what time she might show up to do a 1606 01:17:53,770 --> 01:17:50,690 pillow count oh yeah I never took took 1607 01:17:57,190 --> 01:17:53,780 more than the last 11 days I never took 1608 01:17:59,680 --> 01:17:57,200 and I wanted to this day I know Toby had 1609 01:18:03,490 --> 01:17:59,690 so many problems and I wonder if those 1610 01:18:06,340 --> 01:18:03,500 pills did something to his psyche or his 1611 01:18:08,920 --> 01:18:06,350 mind that caused him to have all these 1612 01:18:13,570 --> 01:18:08,930 problems in life did you talk to him 1613 01:18:16,630 --> 01:18:13,580 about taking the pills at any point we 1614 01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:16,640 were under this no contact order and I 1615 01:18:23,110 --> 01:18:20,930 had these really conflicted emotions on 1616 01:18:25,870 --> 01:18:23,120 one hand I wanted nothing to do with the 1617 01:18:27,730 --> 01:18:25,880 guy and on the other I felt like I 1618 01:18:31,300 --> 01:18:27,740 absolutely had to see him one more time 1619 01:18:33,850 --> 01:18:31,310 and I did and we were coming home from 1620 01:18:35,950 --> 01:18:33,860 the grocery store and we have both lived 1621 01:18:38,020 --> 01:18:35,960 in an NCO house a couple blocks apart 1622 01:18:40,030 --> 01:18:38,030 and I asked my wife I said would you 1623 01:18:41,950 --> 01:18:40,040 pull over I want to run in and she's 1624 01:18:44,230 --> 01:18:41,960 like no don't do bad you know don't 1625 01:18:45,700 --> 01:18:44,240 don't violate this order and I'm like 1626 01:18:47,890 --> 01:18:45,710 look it'll be all right I'll be in I'll 1627 01:18:51,340 --> 01:18:47,900 be back in 30 seconds I just got to tell 1628 01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:51,350 good tell Toby goodbye so I walked in 1629 01:18:55,480 --> 01:18:53,930 walked up to the house my wife waited in 1630 01:18:57,010 --> 01:18:55,490 the car I walked up to the house to the 1631 01:18:58,110 --> 01:18:57,020 door I've been through a hundred times 1632 01:19:01,650 --> 01:18:58,120 and I 1633 01:19:04,380 --> 01:19:01,660 like I always did and there was Toby's 1634 01:19:07,890 --> 01:19:04,390 wife and she glared at me and said 1635 01:19:09,150 --> 01:19:07,900 you're not supposed to be here and I'm 1636 01:19:12,990 --> 01:19:09,160 sure that she blamed me 1637 01:19:15,780 --> 01:19:13,000 they were reassigned and they were in 1638 01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:15,790 the process of packing they had orders 1639 01:19:22,590 --> 01:19:19,690 to Japan and I said well I heard I heard 1640 01:19:23,460 --> 01:19:22,600 you guys were and she walked away I was 1641 01:19:25,020 --> 01:19:23,470 trying to talk to her 1642 01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:25,030 Toby must have heard me because he came 1643 01:19:31,740 --> 01:19:28,570 around the corner and when he did I was 1644 01:19:38,300 --> 01:19:31,750 I was shocked because he was wearing a 1645 01:19:41,790 --> 01:19:38,310 dirty t-shirt and he was unshaven and 1646 01:19:45,300 --> 01:19:41,800 his eyes were bloodshot and he wreaked a 1647 01:19:47,940 --> 01:19:45,310 liqueur and I mean this is a guy that 1648 01:19:54,630 --> 01:19:47,950 you know we barbecued he might drink a 1649 01:19:56,550 --> 01:19:54,640 can maybe two cans of beer and he 1650 01:19:59,160 --> 01:19:56,560 smelled a liquor and it was real awkward 1651 01:20:02,160 --> 01:19:59,170 you know I saw a minute and I felt like 1652 01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:02,170 it'd be appropriate to hug him and and I 1653 01:20:09,060 --> 01:20:06,250 didn't and I held on my hand and we 1654 01:20:13,170 --> 01:20:09,070 shook hands and I said I heard you guys 1655 01:20:16,470 --> 01:20:13,180 are PCs and meaning permanent changes 1656 01:20:20,010 --> 01:20:16,480 station moving and I just wanted to wish 1657 01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:20,020 you well and he wasn't look he was 1658 01:20:25,020 --> 01:20:21,850 looking at his feet and he looked up at 1659 01:20:28,670 --> 01:20:25,030 me and he was a short guy and he looked 1660 01:20:33,300 --> 01:20:28,680 up at me with these bloodshot eyes and 1661 01:20:36,510 --> 01:20:33,310 said it happened didn't it all really 1662 01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:36,520 happening Wow and I said yeah Toby it 1663 01:20:41,820 --> 01:20:39,090 all happened you're not losing your mind 1664 01:20:44,730 --> 01:20:41,830 and I turned around and I left and 1665 01:20:47,100 --> 01:20:44,740 that's the last time I ever saw well so 1666 01:20:51,660 --> 01:20:47,110 you're thinking the the drugs may have 1667 01:20:53,150 --> 01:20:51,670 been to kind of kind of make it seem 1668 01:21:01,160 --> 01:20:53,160 like the whole thing was a fantasy 1669 01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:01,170 perhaps maybe maybe that or maybe I 1670 01:21:08,190 --> 01:21:05,010 think they were designed to mentally 1671 01:21:11,149 --> 01:21:08,200 cause us harm I really do I think they 1672 01:21:13,969 --> 01:21:11,159 were trying to poison us I mean that's a 1673 01:21:15,949 --> 01:21:13,979 her statement to make but you know I 1674 01:21:17,659 --> 01:21:15,959 took those pills for three days I wish 1675 01:21:22,549 --> 01:21:17,669 to this day I'd saved one of those 1676 01:21:25,159 --> 01:21:22,559 capsules yeah yeah did you find right 1677 01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:25,169 off the bat when you had a no-contact 1678 01:21:30,199 --> 01:21:27,090 order with Toby didn't you find that to 1679 01:21:34,009 --> 01:21:30,209 be a very strange and did you want to 1680 01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:34,019 question why I did find that very 1681 01:21:40,399 --> 01:21:37,530 strange but remember that you know I had 1682 01:21:43,489 --> 01:21:40,409 this other emotion going on too 1683 01:21:47,149 --> 01:21:43,499 that I haven't told my wife it's you 1684 01:21:49,449 --> 01:21:47,159 know it's fine with me and she couldn't 1685 01:21:53,750 --> 01:21:49,459 understand why suddenly I had this 1686 01:21:56,750 --> 01:21:53,760 wanted nothing to do with Toby and you 1687 01:21:58,909 --> 01:21:56,760 know it just told me like I said Toby 1688 01:22:06,739 --> 01:21:58,919 and his wife probably blame me for this 1689 01:22:08,569 --> 01:22:06,749 whole incident and with I didn't have 1690 01:22:10,009 --> 01:22:08,579 the desire to really have contact with 1691 01:22:12,649 --> 01:22:10,019 the guy so and there was nobody to 1692 01:22:17,299 --> 01:22:12,659 question who do i question you know I 1693 01:22:19,459 --> 01:22:17,309 mean I'm a lowly NCO you know there was 1694 01:22:22,159 --> 01:22:19,469 nobody to say hey what's the deal here 1695 01:22:25,580 --> 01:22:22,169 explain this to me no I wasn't in that 1696 01:22:27,319 --> 01:22:25,590 kind of position well interesting I'm 1697 01:22:30,219 --> 01:22:27,329 gonna put the call number up there I 1698 01:22:33,140 --> 01:22:30,229 know there's a lot more ground to cover 1699 01:22:34,489 --> 01:22:33,150 you know all the years that went by in 1700 01:22:37,209 --> 01:22:34,499 between I want to talk about that but I 1701 01:22:39,319 --> 01:22:37,219 also want to give the opportunity of 1702 01:22:42,830 --> 01:22:39,329 someone to call if they have a question 1703 01:22:44,719 --> 01:22:42,840 for you so anyone paying attention to 1704 01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:44,729 this may want to call in because there's 1705 01:22:49,069 --> 01:22:47,130 a real fascinating story and the numbers 1706 01:22:53,589 --> 01:22:49,079 up on the screen in YouTube if you're 1707 01:22:57,080 --> 01:22:53,599 over at kgr a radio that number 603 967 1708 01:22:59,029 --> 01:22:57,090 403 oh and that call is only that number 1709 01:23:01,429 --> 01:22:59,039 is only active during the live show so 1710 01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:01,439 you're welcome to call in and ask our 1711 01:23:10,459 --> 01:23:04,610 guest a question if you'd like to call 1712 01:23:12,379 --> 01:23:10,469 so I know there's so many things I feel 1713 01:23:14,419 --> 01:23:12,389 like asking you but I know that a number 1714 01:23:18,109 --> 01:23:14,429 of people have said similar things that 1715 01:23:20,359 --> 01:23:18,119 you have said I spoke to someone months 1716 01:23:23,389 --> 01:23:20,369 ago that was at an airbase where there 1717 01:23:24,500 --> 01:23:23,399 were nuclear weapons and a UFO came 1718 01:23:27,260 --> 01:23:24,510 right over them but 1719 01:23:29,270 --> 01:23:27,270 prior to the UFO coming over they said 1720 01:23:31,940 --> 01:23:29,280 he was this isn't Florida near the 1721 01:23:35,900 --> 01:23:31,950 Everglades very very loud jungle noise 1722 01:23:38,990 --> 01:23:35,910 there and everything went quiet dead 1723 01:23:41,510 --> 01:23:39,000 quiet and it was for several minutes 1724 01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:41,520 before this thing came over same exact 1725 01:23:46,700 --> 01:23:41,970 thing 1726 01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:46,710 that I think is fascinating is you went 1727 01:23:51,410 --> 01:23:49,290 to sleep right after this 1728 01:23:54,260 --> 01:23:51,420 you just had to fall asleep right away 1729 01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:54,270 the allagash incident same thing they 1730 01:23:58,040 --> 01:23:56,130 went through this whole horrific thing 1731 01:24:01,250 --> 01:23:58,050 and they couldn't get to sleep fast 1732 01:24:02,500 --> 01:24:01,260 enough they couldn't talk about it they 1733 01:24:04,730 --> 01:24:02,510 didn't talk about it amongst themselves 1734 01:24:07,910 --> 01:24:04,740 afterwards I want to ask you did you 1735 01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:07,920 talk to Toby what was the conversation 1736 01:24:12,410 --> 01:24:09,690 like when you were driving back I know 1737 01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:12,420 you were very dehydrated there was no 1738 01:24:16,310 --> 01:24:14,730 conversation I mean that the 1739 01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:16,320 conversation was limited to man you 1740 01:24:27,500 --> 01:24:24,020 Toby asked me two or three times or we 1741 01:24:29,030 --> 01:24:27,510 get close man are we close yeah cuz he 1742 01:24:31,670 --> 01:24:29,040 was as miserable as I was 1743 01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:31,680 wow that was hit I mean with there was 1744 01:24:37,280 --> 01:24:34,770 no conversation there was hardly a words 1745 01:24:39,890 --> 01:24:37,290 woken between us when I dropped him off 1746 01:24:43,490 --> 01:24:39,900 I said I pulled into his driveway and 1747 01:24:44,540 --> 01:24:43,500 said here you go man I don't know wow we 1748 01:24:47,300 --> 01:24:44,550 have a caller on the line we have 1749 01:24:49,100 --> 01:24:47,310 another one trying to call in - so the 1750 01:24:51,260 --> 01:24:49,110 second caller I'll tell you to hang in 1751 01:24:52,610 --> 01:24:51,270 and call back if you would a caller 1752 01:24:55,730 --> 01:24:52,620 where are you calling from your first 1753 01:24:59,630 --> 01:24:55,740 name please hey Martin this is Bobby in 1754 01:25:01,130 --> 01:24:59,640 North Carolina Bobby Bobby now and we 1755 01:25:02,930 --> 01:25:01,140 have another caller trying to Kennet in 1756 01:25:04,940 --> 01:25:02,940 here - all of a sudden everyone wants to 1757 01:25:06,890 --> 01:25:04,950 call it and so we'll take you one at a 1758 01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:06,900 time if you're listening just hang on 1759 01:25:13,070 --> 01:25:10,770 and call back Bobby you were the person 1760 01:25:15,110 --> 01:25:13,080 one of the people of about five or so 1761 01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:15,120 people that recommended our guest 1762 01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:17,610 tonight so you're welcome to ask him a 1763 01:25:23,420 --> 01:25:20,730 question go right ahead thank you yeah 1764 01:25:25,790 --> 01:25:23,430 Perry I found your book amazing I 1765 01:25:29,990 --> 01:25:25,800 enjoyed every bit of it and I truly 1766 01:25:33,140 --> 01:25:30,000 believe you one thing I want to add yeah 1767 01:25:36,860 --> 01:25:33,150 I'm sorry that you to delay thing is 1768 01:25:38,100 --> 01:25:36,870 weird but years ago I'm going to call it 1769 01:25:41,030 --> 01:25:38,110 a dream but I 1770 01:25:44,490 --> 01:25:41,040 a dream where I was waking up and 1771 01:25:47,340 --> 01:25:44,500 something akin to a monkey hit me in the 1772 01:25:50,609 --> 01:25:47,350 forehead and put me back out and I never 1773 01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:50,619 forgot that and when I was reading your 1774 01:25:56,370 --> 01:25:53,290 book you're the only person who's ever 1775 01:25:59,910 --> 01:25:56,380 said anything like that and so I found 1776 01:26:01,979 --> 01:25:59,920 that really amazing yeah did you have 1777 01:26:02,850 --> 01:26:01,989 just was that just a one on or did you 1778 01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:02,860 have 1779 01:26:07,260 --> 01:26:05,290 could I ask Bobby how old were you and 1780 01:26:11,010 --> 01:26:07,270 was that just a one on or did you have 1781 01:26:14,310 --> 01:26:11,020 other dreams involving monkeys no that 1782 01:26:16,350 --> 01:26:14,320 was one on and I'm 53 now I was a kid 1783 01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:16,360 back then I'm gonna say I was gonna I 1784 01:26:24,149 --> 01:26:20,050 was eight or less but my whole entire 1785 01:26:27,780 --> 01:26:24,159 family has had experiences I'm gonna 1786 01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:27,790 leave it at that I've actually seen UFOs 1787 01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:30,369 many times in my life I grew up 1788 01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:32,050 underneath the Miami International 1789 01:26:39,500 --> 01:26:34,570 Airport so I know what flies in the sky 1790 01:26:41,790 --> 01:26:39,510 is what does a fly in the skies yeah 1791 01:26:44,189 --> 01:26:41,800 just kid I said over the years since 1792 01:26:46,350 --> 01:26:44,199 that event had have you had nightmares 1793 01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:46,360 have you as it returned to you or has it 1794 01:26:48,570 --> 01:26:47,290 been one of those kind of things we're 1795 01:26:52,290 --> 01:26:48,580 just always in the forefront of your 1796 01:26:56,669 --> 01:26:52,300 mind and you just can't can't put it the 1797 01:27:01,890 --> 01:26:56,679 rest I'm gonna say I've been a UFO nut 1798 01:27:05,370 --> 01:27:01,900 for about half of my life yeah yeah I 1799 01:27:08,790 --> 01:27:05,380 can't put it to rest so but I loved your 1800 01:27:11,100 --> 01:27:08,800 book it's a great book I completely 1801 01:27:14,729 --> 01:27:11,110 believe you I'm sorry for your friend 1802 01:27:16,229 --> 01:27:14,739 Tobias you really should talk when you 1803 01:27:18,870 --> 01:27:16,239 have a few more minutes about the 1804 01:27:21,390 --> 01:27:18,880 incident over the when you were the 1805 01:27:23,129 --> 01:27:21,400 medic and the incident over the nuclear 1806 01:27:26,250 --> 01:27:23,139 site because you never even brought that 1807 01:27:28,350 --> 01:27:26,260 up tonight no so much to cover Bobby 1808 01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:28,360 it's it's it's it's hard to prioritize 1809 01:27:34,439 --> 01:27:31,810 but no hey Bobby we have another caller 1810 01:27:36,479 --> 01:27:34,449 coming in so okay all right hey thanks a 1811 01:27:39,149 --> 01:27:36,489 lot thank you bye 1812 01:27:41,310 --> 01:27:39,159 all right thank you so good night caller 1813 01:27:44,669 --> 01:27:41,320 welcome to the show you your first name 1814 01:27:45,810 --> 01:27:44,679 where you calling from my name is Ramona 1815 01:27:48,959 --> 01:27:45,820 Chloe from Hawaii 1816 01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:48,969 well welcomes I wish I was there thank 1817 01:27:55,229 --> 01:27:51,730 you thank you for a wonderful 1818 01:28:01,760 --> 01:27:55,239 and I really want to thank them cherry 1819 01:28:05,130 --> 01:28:01,770 for being on their podcast oh thanks 1820 01:28:07,170 --> 01:28:05,140 Mike my question to Terry is what 1821 01:28:09,780 --> 01:28:07,180 brought you out to come out with your 1822 01:28:13,950 --> 01:28:09,790 book that we you wanted to share 1823 01:28:17,370 --> 01:28:13,960 experience and to this day in 2018 do 1824 01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:17,380 you have any any health problems we get 1825 01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:21,610 incidents you've been in the past now 1826 01:28:28,620 --> 01:28:25,090 let me I had no intention of ever 1827 01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:28,630 writing a book or ever discussing this 1828 01:28:35,940 --> 01:28:33,130 with anyone other than my wife my wife 1829 01:28:40,140 --> 01:28:35,950 and I did not tell our kids about this 1830 01:28:42,990 --> 01:28:40,150 we have adult children hey pardon me 1831 01:28:45,090 --> 01:28:43,000 pardon me Terry hang on a caller would 1832 01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:45,100 you mind muting your your computer or 1833 01:28:52,620 --> 01:28:46,930 whatever device you're listening to the 1834 01:28:55,100 --> 01:28:52,630 show on please oh thank you okay go 1835 01:28:57,290 --> 01:28:55,110 ahead continue I'm sorry Terry go ahead 1836 01:28:59,640 --> 01:28:57,300 yes 1837 01:29:00,410 --> 01:28:59,650 and I lost my train of thought where was 1838 01:29:04,380 --> 01:29:00,420 I 1839 01:29:06,210 --> 01:29:04,390 Ramona before freshmen everything you 1840 01:29:08,580 --> 01:29:06,220 didn't want to come out and it was 1841 01:29:11,310 --> 01:29:08,590 between you and your way thank you all 1842 01:29:13,380 --> 01:29:11,320 my children knew was that you know hey 1843 01:29:18,180 --> 01:29:13,390 Dad had screaming nightmares once or 1844 01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:18,190 twice a year I what made me decide to 1845 01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:21,010 write this book and come out and be open 1846 01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:25,090 about it was in 2012 I had an x-ray of 1847 01:29:30,210 --> 01:29:27,730 my leg at the VA hospital I say I won't 1848 01:29:32,700 --> 01:29:30,220 thought I quote mine broke my knee and 1849 01:29:35,850 --> 01:29:32,710 when I did when they took the x-ray 1850 01:29:40,050 --> 01:29:35,860 there's and the x-rays are in the back 1851 01:29:41,820 --> 01:29:40,060 of the book there's an object above my 1852 01:29:45,390 --> 01:29:41,830 knee that looks like a computer chip 1853 01:29:48,750 --> 01:29:45,400 with two wires attached and there is an 1854 01:29:51,330 --> 01:29:48,760 object below my name which is kind of 1855 01:29:55,860 --> 01:29:51,340 like a tic-tac fluoro type arrangement 1856 01:29:59,160 --> 01:29:55,870 of what they said was the consistency of 1857 01:30:00,870 --> 01:29:59,170 bone you know a radiologist said you 1858 01:30:05,490 --> 01:30:00,880 know bone just doesn't spring in the 1859 01:30:08,670 --> 01:30:05,500 middle position it was an automation 1860 01:30:11,150 --> 01:30:08,680 all these things in my rope and that 1861 01:30:14,940 --> 01:30:11,160 they somehow must relate back to this 1862 01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:14,950 1977 incident and about 60 days after 1863 01:30:22,500 --> 01:30:18,610 this x-ray the nightmare started yeah 1864 01:30:28,110 --> 01:30:22,510 and it was a replay in 1977 and it it 1865 01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:28,120 was bad it was very and as far as my 1866 01:30:36,240 --> 01:30:31,090 health goes I had a pretty dramatic 1867 01:30:39,480 --> 01:30:36,250 weight loss with 2016 and that's 1868 01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:39,490 gradually improved my weight got down to 1869 01:30:48,660 --> 01:30:43,810 140 earlier this year and I'm back up to 1870 01:30:52,470 --> 01:30:48,670 160 but I normally did it was a carry 1871 01:30:57,240 --> 01:30:52,480 220 pounds so and then I have no 1872 01:30:58,680 --> 01:30:57,250 explanation for that weight loss well up 1873 01:31:00,840 --> 01:30:58,690 on the Thank You Terry 1874 01:31:03,900 --> 01:31:00,850 thank you thanks so much for the call we 1875 01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:03,910 have up calls quick you thanks thanks 1876 01:31:09,420 --> 01:31:06,730 very much thank you bye we have a number 1877 01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:09,430 of callers trying to come in so up now 1878 01:31:15,330 --> 01:31:12,970 in the youtube screen we do have the we 1879 01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:15,340 have the x-rays up there right now okay 1880 01:31:22,190 --> 01:31:18,610 so call her thanks for the call and your 1881 01:31:27,210 --> 01:31:24,750 I'll try this one I think I think it 1882 01:31:29,270 --> 01:31:27,220 went caller you're on the line your 1883 01:31:32,070 --> 01:31:29,280 first name and where you're calling from 1884 01:31:35,010 --> 01:31:32,080 hi my name is Christopher I'm calling 1885 01:31:36,570 --> 01:31:35,020 from Phoenix Arizona I missed the 1886 01:31:37,770 --> 01:31:36,580 beginning of the broadcast Martin so I'm 1887 01:31:41,070 --> 01:31:37,780 not sure if you guys already covered 1888 01:31:44,580 --> 01:31:41,080 this but I was curious if your guests 1889 01:31:48,630 --> 01:31:44,590 had this experience had any effect on 1890 01:31:51,930 --> 01:31:48,640 his sort of sense of maybe the afterlife 1891 01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:51,940 or a sense of God or or not or a sense 1892 01:31:56,550 --> 01:31:53,650 of morality right and wrong any of these 1893 01:32:00,090 --> 01:31:56,560 sort of deep questions that we live with 1894 01:32:04,650 --> 01:32:00,100 this experience had any sort of effect 1895 01:32:06,480 --> 01:32:04,660 on on your view of those things well you 1896 01:32:07,890 --> 01:32:06,490 know Christopher I think I've always 1897 01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:07,900 considered myself to be very ethical 1898 01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:11,770 person right that the truth is always 1899 01:32:15,990 --> 01:32:14,050 been very important to me and you know I 1900 01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:16,000 tried to make that evident in my law 1901 01:32:19,270 --> 01:32:18,610 practice and then when I was a civil 1902 01:32:23,230 --> 01:32:19,280 servant 1903 01:32:26,620 --> 01:32:23,240 and I think that I served well and and 1904 01:32:32,220 --> 01:32:26,630 and did that but it really had an effect 1905 01:32:34,630 --> 01:32:32,230 on me and in terms of the afterlife and 1906 01:32:37,330 --> 01:32:34,640 it made me sure of one thing that we're 1907 01:32:38,140 --> 01:32:37,340 not top dog that that we're not alone in 1908 01:32:42,460 --> 01:32:38,150 this universe 1909 01:32:45,670 --> 01:32:42,470 I know that for a fact 1910 01:32:47,650 --> 01:32:45,680 and it gets me want to know these other 1911 01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:47,660 things are they there they're obviously 1912 01:32:56,530 --> 01:32:52,010 more evolved than we are but I want to 1913 01:33:00,370 --> 01:32:56,540 ask them you know is there a God do you 1914 01:33:05,230 --> 01:33:00,380 believe in God do do do you as society 1915 01:33:09,070 --> 01:33:05,240 as a society worshipped God is there an 1916 01:33:11,950 --> 01:33:09,080 afterlife that you can point to all 1917 01:33:14,140 --> 01:33:11,960 these things just are big questions that 1918 01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:14,150 weigh on my mind like they've long I 1919 01:33:19,900 --> 01:33:16,970 think their questions existential 1920 01:33:23,020 --> 01:33:19,910 questions we all have but yeah this this 1921 01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:23,030 event I don't have a lifetime effect on 1922 01:33:29,350 --> 01:33:27,410 me I would imagine so I yeah oh go ahead 1923 01:33:32,010 --> 01:33:29,360 no I was just saying good question good 1924 01:33:34,510 --> 01:33:32,020 question Chris did you have a follow-up 1925 01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:34,520 well I just the last comment I guess is 1926 01:33:40,420 --> 01:33:37,130 in agreement with with what you're 1927 01:33:43,240 --> 01:33:40,430 saying that if there you know et there's 1928 01:33:45,700 --> 01:33:43,250 going to be some species better billions 1929 01:33:47,380 --> 01:33:45,710 of years older than us perhaps and they 1930 01:33:49,870 --> 01:33:47,390 might have a lot more knowledge about 1931 01:33:51,940 --> 01:33:49,880 the essence of life than biology and the 1932 01:33:53,230 --> 01:33:51,950 universe and death and life I would 1933 01:33:54,730 --> 01:33:53,240 imagine they could have learned things 1934 01:33:56,380 --> 01:33:54,740 that we haven't quite learned yet or 1935 01:33:58,390 --> 01:33:56,390 maybe they could synthesize things 1936 01:34:01,240 --> 01:33:58,400 verbally that we haven't been able to 1937 01:34:02,620 --> 01:34:01,250 really document as well or something 1938 01:34:04,480 --> 01:34:02,630 like that but thanks for taking my call 1939 01:34:08,710 --> 01:34:04,490 I appreciate it sure thank you next to 1940 01:34:11,140 --> 01:34:08,720 the call so I know a number of people 1941 01:34:12,910 --> 01:34:11,150 been trying to call in that lines open 1942 01:34:15,100 --> 01:34:12,920 now watch this gonna be like three or 1943 01:34:18,300 --> 01:34:15,110 four calls come up at once I guess and 1944 01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:18,310 we have one right now hang in there 1945 01:34:22,510 --> 01:34:21,290 caller you are live on the radio your 1946 01:34:31,810 --> 01:34:22,520 first name and where you're calling from 1947 01:34:33,069 --> 01:34:31,820 please I'm sorry what abner corner okay 1948 01:34:37,689 --> 01:34:33,079 hi how you doing 1949 01:34:41,619 --> 01:34:37,699 welcome go ahead patellae 1950 01:34:47,139 --> 01:34:41,629 um I'm being exploited myself I served 1951 01:34:49,239 --> 01:34:47,149 in submarines and so on and I understand 1952 01:34:53,529 --> 01:34:49,249 the military very strict my question is 1953 01:34:56,319 --> 01:34:53,539 since we have this no contact or with 1954 01:34:59,079 --> 01:34:56,329 the buyers back in a day having to try 1955 01:35:01,689 --> 01:34:59,089 to contact him in the recent years or 1956 01:35:05,649 --> 01:35:01,699 recent times I don't that are still 1957 01:35:08,139 --> 01:35:05,659 applies or not in my mind it didn't 1958 01:35:15,819 --> 01:35:08,149 apply no when I when I separated from 1959 01:35:19,839 --> 01:35:15,829 the military uh no I I waited too long 1960 01:35:21,489 --> 01:35:19,849 to look for Toby and by the time that I 1961 01:35:26,459 --> 01:35:21,499 got around to trying to find Toby 1962 01:35:29,679 --> 01:35:26,469 actually in 2014 yet he had passed away 1963 01:35:33,009 --> 01:35:29,689 he had a very unfortunate life I had 1964 01:35:34,689 --> 01:35:33,019 tried to contact them back in Ralph 1965 01:35:36,310 --> 01:35:34,699 several times back in the 80s and 1966 01:35:41,319 --> 01:35:36,320 actually got ahold of his dad up in 1967 01:35:47,469 --> 01:35:41,329 Flint and found out that he was divorced 1968 01:35:50,679 --> 01:35:47,479 at that time and homeless so that an 1969 01:35:52,419 --> 01:35:50,689 alien or a cat what's a cat okay just 1970 01:35:56,049 --> 01:35:52,429 trying to get trying to get her 1971 01:36:02,020 --> 01:35:56,059 contained here oh that's that's 1972 01:36:05,949 --> 01:36:02,030 unfortunate yeah well hey thank you 1973 01:36:08,199 --> 01:36:05,959 thanks for the call later all right 1974 01:36:10,569 --> 01:36:08,209 so the line is open someone else wants 1975 01:36:12,399 --> 01:36:10,579 to give a call I have up until that 1976 01:36:14,649 --> 01:36:12,409 question comes in have you ever thought 1977 01:36:17,319 --> 01:36:14,659 of or has anyone ever talked to you 1978 01:36:21,669 --> 01:36:17,329 about doing any hypnotherapy regression 1979 01:36:23,889 --> 01:36:21,679 on the incident they have there was a 1980 01:36:25,449 --> 01:36:23,899 lady you may be familiar with her her 1981 01:36:30,549 --> 01:36:25,459 name is Siobhan Smith oh yes 1982 01:36:33,189 --> 01:36:30,559 and I've talked to you on and I I'm 1983 01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:33,199 seriously gonna I'm been thinking about 1984 01:36:39,399 --> 01:36:36,050 that and I'm grappling with that and 1985 01:36:40,689 --> 01:36:39,409 there's part of me that's thinking I'm 1986 01:36:43,899 --> 01:36:40,699 that I'm gonna see things I don't want 1987 01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:43,909 to see right yeah but maybe maybe I need 1988 01:36:48,669 --> 01:36:46,610 that and 1989 01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:48,679 Mabon and I are in contact I'm going to 1990 01:36:53,080 --> 01:36:51,530 see her at Roswell and I'm going to 1991 01:36:57,820 --> 01:36:53,090 determine I'm going to make a decision 1992 01:36:59,680 --> 01:36:57,830 between now and July yeah yeah I've I've 1993 01:37:03,340 --> 01:36:59,690 asked a number of people that have had 1994 01:37:06,189 --> 01:37:03,350 similar situations to yours and you know 1995 01:37:07,479 --> 01:37:06,199 they mostly say the same thing you know 1996 01:37:09,310 --> 01:37:07,489 they're afraid of what they're gonna see 1997 01:37:13,000 --> 01:37:09,320 and I totally get that 1998 01:37:14,919 --> 01:37:13,010 and I don't know if I would do it if I 1999 01:37:17,229 --> 01:37:14,929 was in your shoes I don't think so 2000 01:37:18,939 --> 01:37:17,239 and I can so relate to you jumping in 2001 01:37:23,890 --> 01:37:18,949 the car and just taking off and leaving 2002 01:37:25,450 --> 01:37:23,900 everything that's that's exactly exactly 2003 01:37:30,850 --> 01:37:25,460 what I would do 2004 01:37:34,510 --> 01:37:30,860 so just along those lines do you think 2005 01:37:36,640 --> 01:37:34,520 that do you think would help you put it 2006 01:37:38,770 --> 01:37:36,650 to rest a little bit if you did find out 2007 01:37:43,359 --> 01:37:38,780 more do you think you're in a decent 2008 01:37:45,700 --> 01:37:43,369 place with it right now I kind of think 2009 01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:45,710 I'm in a decent place with it and I 2010 01:37:51,090 --> 01:37:47,330 think that part of that as a result of 2011 01:37:54,370 --> 01:37:51,100 writing the book you know I had never 2012 01:37:56,530 --> 01:37:54,380 spoken publicly about this and then 2017 2013 01:37:59,830 --> 01:37:56,540 I went to a UFO event down in Houston 2014 01:38:03,700 --> 01:37:59,840 and struck up a conversation with Travis 2015 01:38:05,859 --> 01:38:03,710 Walton and we ended up talking for over 2016 01:38:08,050 --> 01:38:05,869 an hour over an hour 2017 01:38:11,250 --> 01:38:08,060 actually he invited me to sit on a panel 2018 01:38:15,340 --> 01:38:11,260 discussion with him and and Derrel Sims 2019 01:38:18,790 --> 01:38:15,350 and I did and it felt good to answer 2020 01:38:20,350 --> 01:38:18,800 people's questions and that was shortly 2021 01:38:21,910 --> 01:38:20,360 before I was still on the fence about 2022 01:38:24,700 --> 01:38:21,920 whether I should publish this book or 2023 01:38:27,729 --> 01:38:24,710 not and what kind of help push that 2024 01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:27,739 decision over the closing I'm glad I did 2025 01:38:32,649 --> 01:38:29,690 it was the right thing to do all right 2026 01:38:34,930 --> 01:38:32,659 now when Bobby was calling us he 2027 01:38:38,830 --> 01:38:34,940 mentioned another event at a nuclear 2028 01:38:40,959 --> 01:38:38,840 base nuclear armed base you come won't 2029 01:38:42,640 --> 01:38:40,969 you tell tell us the story about that 2030 01:38:45,850 --> 01:38:42,650 because wasn't that a diamond was that a 2031 01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:45,860 diamond shaped craft it was you know and 2032 01:38:50,350 --> 01:38:47,810 also are you aware of another drawing 2033 01:38:54,700 --> 01:38:50,360 that is very similar to yours that was a 2034 01:38:58,300 --> 01:38:54,710 three years apart from yours we'll be in 2035 01:38:59,740 --> 01:38:58,310 touch yes it's a very very similar it 2036 01:39:03,490 --> 01:38:59,750 looks like the same drawing 2037 01:39:05,290 --> 01:39:03,500 so we'll talk about that and that was 2038 01:39:08,980 --> 01:39:05,300 sent to me by Bobby the person who 2039 01:39:10,750 --> 01:39:08,990 called actually he found it I would love 2040 01:39:12,130 --> 01:39:10,760 to see that yeah so why don't you go 2041 01:39:14,050 --> 01:39:12,140 ahead and talk about that incident if 2042 01:39:16,690 --> 01:39:14,060 you would please yeah that incident 2043 01:39:18,250 --> 01:39:16,700 happened and in the book I've got a 2044 01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:18,260 picture what doesn't look like much it's 2045 01:39:23,670 --> 01:39:20,090 called kilo five it was the launch 2046 01:39:26,770 --> 01:39:23,680 facility these launch facilities were 2047 01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:26,780 scattered all through Western world 2048 01:39:34,000 --> 01:39:31,010 western Missouri and it's where they had 2049 01:39:38,440 --> 01:39:34,010 the nuclear weapon the Minutemen two 2050 01:39:43,660 --> 01:39:38,450 ICBM 60-foot tall down in a and a silo 2051 01:39:45,580 --> 01:39:43,670 capped with a blue dome and we were 2052 01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:45,590 working as we always did we worked the 2053 01:39:50,620 --> 01:39:47,570 emergency room at night and we got a 2054 01:39:54,850 --> 01:39:50,630 call that there was a missile technician 2055 01:39:57,010 --> 01:39:54,860 who fell in and probably broke a leg so 2056 01:40:01,360 --> 01:39:57,020 we we have any ambulance and took our 2057 01:40:03,160 --> 01:40:01,370 did our usual routine and I noticed that 2058 01:40:05,140 --> 01:40:03,170 when the we got the call in it was kind 2059 01:40:10,300 --> 01:40:05,150 of slim on facts and I remember saying 2060 01:40:12,070 --> 01:40:10,310 you know it's a little bit odd and we we 2061 01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:12,080 flew like we always did 2062 01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:14,930 you know we we didn't fly airplanes but 2063 01:40:19,090 --> 01:40:17,330 you know but we got them tried the same 2064 01:40:21,340 --> 01:40:19,100 and once at 100 miles an hour four bites 2065 01:40:22,870 --> 01:40:21,350 policing and now you don't have that 22 2066 01:40:24,360 --> 01:40:22,880 that was big fun if you couldn't fly an 2067 01:40:28,990 --> 01:40:24,370 airplane that we could at least do that 2068 01:40:33,370 --> 01:40:29,000 and we were this thing was about kilo 5 2069 01:40:36,070 --> 01:40:33,380 was about 18 miles or less from the 2070 01:40:38,440 --> 01:40:36,080 airbase it was out in the boonies all of 2071 01:40:42,360 --> 01:40:38,450 them were middle of soybean fields and 2072 01:40:45,610 --> 01:40:42,370 the like and we're flying up there and 2073 01:40:49,090 --> 01:40:45,620 we get about a mile and a half away and 2074 01:40:52,470 --> 01:40:49,100 there is a roadblock with two cars and 2075 01:40:56,020 --> 01:40:52,480 it is bitterly cold I mean it is 2076 01:40:57,850 --> 01:40:56,030 probably zero with a windchill or god 2077 01:41:00,550 --> 01:40:57,860 knows what it was very very cold at 2078 01:41:01,780 --> 01:41:00,560 night and these two guys were both in 2079 01:41:03,250 --> 01:41:01,790 their cars I'm sure they were supposed 2080 01:41:06,930 --> 01:41:03,260 to be outside the cars but they were in 2081 01:41:09,160 --> 01:41:06,940 their cars and they they saw me well I 2082 01:41:10,750 --> 01:41:09,170 pulled the car back and I rolled my 2083 01:41:13,370 --> 01:41:10,760 window down he brought this down and I 2084 01:41:15,229 --> 01:41:13,380 said hey man what's going on a kilo five 2085 01:41:18,500 --> 01:41:15,239 it's like man I don't know you know 2086 01:41:20,570 --> 01:41:18,510 beats us but something and we could see 2087 01:41:23,270 --> 01:41:20,580 on the horizon because we weren't that 2088 01:41:28,280 --> 01:41:23,280 far away there was this weird orange 2089 01:41:31,729 --> 01:41:28,290 glow and what it was was there were 2090 01:41:34,250 --> 01:41:31,739 about a dozen security police cars there 2091 01:41:37,250 --> 01:41:34,260 and he all had your exhaust running and 2092 01:41:38,780 --> 01:41:37,260 he all had these overheads going so 2093 01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:38,790 there was this big cloud of exhaust 2094 01:41:46,010 --> 01:41:41,489 fumes illuminated by these lights and 2095 01:41:48,200 --> 01:41:46,020 was that eerie eerie looking thing so I 2096 01:41:50,919 --> 01:41:48,210 we pulled up on the scene and there was 2097 01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:50,929 a captain in the middle of the road and 2098 01:41:57,050 --> 01:41:54,210 I rolled up to him and blow my window 2099 01:42:00,830 --> 01:41:57,060 down and he said look your guy's walking 2100 01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:00,840 and talking but until I give the order 2101 01:42:04,250 --> 01:42:02,850 nobody goes in nobody comes out park 2102 01:42:09,500 --> 01:42:04,260 your ambulance over there and stay off 2103 01:42:13,340 --> 01:42:11,810 and then we'll put you guys out there 2104 01:42:14,959 --> 01:42:13,350 there bunch of security policemen out 2105 01:42:17,629 --> 01:42:14,969 there and they had rifles and then we're 2106 01:42:21,680 --> 01:42:17,639 running around and it was just kind of 2107 01:42:24,229 --> 01:42:21,690 chaotic and you know we've been ordered 2108 01:42:26,780 --> 01:42:24,239 to stay inside our ambulance and it was 2109 01:42:28,580 --> 01:42:26,790 so cold that the inside of the windows 2110 01:42:31,220 --> 01:42:28,590 had frosted over and we couldn't see 2111 01:42:33,950 --> 01:42:31,230 anything and we were facing the wrong 2112 01:42:35,629 --> 01:42:33,960 direction and Toby grabs his parka he 2113 01:42:37,939 --> 01:42:35,639 says man I'm gonna see what's going on 2114 01:42:40,760 --> 01:42:37,949 and I Kobe you know we're not supposed 2115 01:42:43,250 --> 01:42:40,770 to be out there and he's he jumped out 2116 01:42:45,320 --> 01:42:43,260 of the ambulance he's calling for maybe 2117 01:42:47,209 --> 01:42:45,330 two minutes and he comes back and he 2118 01:42:49,010 --> 01:42:47,219 Yanks my door open and he grabs me by 2119 01:42:51,530 --> 01:42:49,020 the shoulder and says man you have got 2120 01:42:53,660 --> 01:42:51,540 to see this and he's pulling me out of 2121 01:42:57,530 --> 01:42:53,670 the ambulance and I'm grabbing my Park 2122 01:42:58,729 --> 01:42:57,540 as I'm going and I'm stumbling and I'm 2123 01:43:00,260 --> 01:42:58,739 walking we walked right up to the 2124 01:43:02,750 --> 01:43:00,270 captain who stand in there and 2125 01:43:04,430 --> 01:43:02,760 everybody's looking up I'm like what and 2126 01:43:07,669 --> 01:43:04,440 I look up and that's when I see this 2127 01:43:13,090 --> 01:43:07,679 thing and it was about the size of a 2128 01:43:16,100 --> 01:43:13,100 full-size van and it was diamond-shaped 2129 01:43:20,840 --> 01:43:16,110 when I say diamond-shaped I mean there 2130 01:43:23,149 --> 01:43:20,850 were facets cut into it and it's funny 2131 01:43:25,459 --> 01:43:23,159 how your mind when I first saw it I 2132 01:43:27,169 --> 01:43:25,469 thought I'm I'm Nydia I'm looking 2133 01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:27,179 through wires or something it's 2134 01:43:31,489 --> 01:43:29,610 just doesn't look right to see this 2135 01:43:33,770 --> 01:43:31,499 thing levitating off the ground 2136 01:43:36,469 --> 01:43:33,780 and there's not a bit of noise there's 2137 01:43:40,189 --> 01:43:36,479 no exhaust there's no engines there's no 2138 01:43:41,899 --> 01:43:40,199 markings on it all the all the police 2139 01:43:45,040 --> 01:43:41,909 cars have their spotlights on it so it's 2140 01:43:50,239 --> 01:43:45,050 lit up it's a matte black in color 2141 01:43:54,069 --> 01:43:50,249 no numerals or anything on it and we're 2142 01:43:56,569 --> 01:43:54,079 standing there and this thing shoots off 2143 01:43:58,719 --> 01:43:56,579 shoots off towards the horizon and it's 2144 01:44:01,310 --> 01:43:58,729 gone literally in the blink of an eye 2145 01:44:03,439 --> 01:44:01,320 and a kid turns her out of me and he's 2146 01:44:05,989 --> 01:44:03,449 smiling like did you see what I just saw 2147 01:44:08,540 --> 01:44:05,999 that I'm smiling back at them and then 2148 01:44:10,489 --> 01:44:08,550 you know he can't everybody ever steps 2149 01:44:13,669 --> 01:44:10,499 back into a respective roles and he's 2150 01:44:16,429 --> 01:44:13,679 like you know getting your ambulance hug 2151 01:44:18,290 --> 01:44:16,439 at the gate had his guys open a gate for 2152 01:44:20,959 --> 01:44:18,300 us we went in and got my we got our 2153 01:44:24,350 --> 01:44:20,969 patient now you know what I considered 2154 01:44:27,379 --> 01:44:24,360 myself I had seen flying saucers twice 2155 01:44:31,969 --> 01:44:27,389 when I was a kid and I considered myself 2156 01:44:33,859 --> 01:44:31,979 to be a expert on extraterrestrial 2157 01:44:37,910 --> 01:44:33,869 things so I was certain whatever we saw 2158 01:44:39,410 --> 01:44:37,920 was either I say F or C CCP but the 2159 01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:39,420 thought of it being extraterrestrial 2160 01:44:43,939 --> 01:44:41,010 really it didn't cross my mind our 2161 01:44:45,500 --> 01:44:43,949 Toby's we were certain it was and we got 2162 01:44:47,689 --> 01:44:45,510 back to the base and the base commander 2163 01:44:49,910 --> 01:44:47,699 was there and he took a son in the 2164 01:44:52,399 --> 01:44:49,920 office in his office and he says all 2165 01:44:54,919 --> 01:44:52,409 right boys and he asked to see a report 2166 01:44:57,020 --> 01:44:54,929 and I gave him my report they did 2167 01:44:59,540 --> 01:44:57,030 something out he made a cop photocopy in 2168 01:45:04,069 --> 01:44:59,550 my report and then he took a black magic 2169 01:45:05,600 --> 01:45:04,079 marker and xed out redacted all the 2170 01:45:09,830 --> 01:45:05,610 times except for the time that I left 2171 01:45:13,729 --> 01:45:09,840 the hospital for whatever reason and 2172 01:45:17,029 --> 01:45:13,739 gave us redacted copies to file and slid 2173 01:45:18,410 --> 01:45:17,039 the originals in his desk and he says 2174 01:45:21,199 --> 01:45:18,420 all right tell me what you saw out there 2175 01:45:24,799 --> 01:45:21,209 and we told him everything we saw and he 2176 01:45:25,729 --> 01:45:24,809 asked us to draw it and and I drew as 2177 01:45:28,939 --> 01:45:25,739 best as I could 2178 01:45:31,969 --> 01:45:28,949 Toby Toby was a genius he really he was 2179 01:45:34,219 --> 01:45:31,979 a genius at math and he actually had the 2180 01:45:36,589 --> 01:45:34,229 forethought to count the facets on the 2181 01:45:39,500 --> 01:45:36,599 side of the thing so he could draw a 2182 01:45:40,399 --> 01:45:39,510 pretty good representation of him I had 2183 01:45:43,759 --> 01:45:40,409 a copy I 2184 01:45:48,469 --> 01:45:43,769 his copy okay and I wish I had not lost 2185 01:45:49,969 --> 01:45:48,479 it over the years but we showed our the 2186 01:45:52,399 --> 01:45:49,979 bit you know the hospital commander and 2187 01:45:54,409 --> 01:45:52,409 he looks at it he's asked us to tell 2188 01:45:58,189 --> 01:45:54,419 exactly what we saw again twice and we 2189 01:46:00,439 --> 01:45:58,199 did and he's like alright boys what you 2190 01:46:03,020 --> 01:46:00,449 saw out there that was a experimental 2191 01:46:05,750 --> 01:46:03,030 helicopter and because it's experimental 2192 01:46:08,270 --> 01:46:05,760 you know we shouldn't talk about it so 2193 01:46:09,589 --> 01:46:08,280 you know you get your bright guys we 2194 01:46:12,799 --> 01:46:09,599 don't you know just don't run your 2195 01:46:14,810 --> 01:46:12,809 mouths about it nobody needs to know and 2196 01:46:17,239 --> 01:46:14,820 we were like both we spoke in unison yes 2197 01:46:21,199 --> 01:46:17,249 sir we knew he didn't had a slightest 2198 01:46:22,939 --> 01:46:21,209 idea of what that was and we we laugh 2199 01:46:25,159 --> 01:46:22,949 but but Mike I see in the thought of 2200 01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:25,169 extraterrestrial what we really didn't 2201 01:46:30,799 --> 01:46:28,010 enter our minds now what year was this 2202 01:46:35,989 --> 01:46:30,809 1975 so this was two years and 2203 01:46:39,919 --> 01:46:35,999 ironically with Toby once again now this 2204 01:46:42,199 --> 01:46:39,929 is this is interesting because there's a 2205 01:46:46,250 --> 01:46:42,209 case called the cash Landrum case have 2206 01:46:49,279 --> 01:46:46,260 you heard about that okay you know what 2207 01:46:51,169 --> 01:46:49,289 it was in Texas was in test I am 2208 01:46:54,620 --> 01:46:51,179 familiar with that and the ladies had 2209 01:46:56,839 --> 01:46:54,630 burned ring it was a diamond shaped 2210 01:46:59,330 --> 01:46:56,849 craft and there's been there has been 2211 01:47:05,080 --> 01:46:59,340 speculation that this was a experimental 2212 01:47:09,229 --> 01:47:05,090 military perhaps a some type of you know 2213 01:47:13,390 --> 01:47:09,239 radiation you know expulsion type of 2214 01:47:16,189 --> 01:47:13,400 thing but I don't know in particular if 2215 01:47:19,330 --> 01:47:16,199 that's true or not you know whether it's 2216 01:47:21,350 --> 01:47:19,340 a nuclear propulsion propulsion type of 2217 01:47:23,779 --> 01:47:21,360 experimental craft they were working on 2218 01:47:26,659 --> 01:47:23,789 you know that's all speculation on that 2219 01:47:28,129 --> 01:47:26,669 whole thing but you said there was 2220 01:47:29,839 --> 01:47:28,139 absolutely no sound and this thing took 2221 01:47:33,919 --> 01:47:29,849 off fast I don't think they had that 2222 01:47:36,350 --> 01:47:33,929 technology not a stuff yeah you know I 2223 01:47:40,270 --> 01:47:36,360 mean you can argue the people that will 2224 01:47:42,409 --> 01:47:40,280 say that it was you know advanced space 2225 01:47:44,810 --> 01:47:42,419 technology that we were working on if 2226 01:47:48,649 --> 01:47:44,820 that was out in 1975 we would certainly 2227 01:47:52,339 --> 01:47:48,659 be using it by now you would think if 2228 01:47:53,729 --> 01:47:52,349 anything for for nothing else for the 2229 01:47:54,870 --> 01:47:53,739 military 2230 01:47:58,770 --> 01:47:54,880 you know something like that would be 2231 01:48:01,859 --> 01:47:58,780 very useful so yeah it's a real big 2232 01:48:03,750 --> 01:48:01,869 question mark for years I wondered if it 2233 01:48:06,660 --> 01:48:03,760 was Soviet I mean after the fall of the 2234 01:48:08,489 --> 01:48:06,670 Soviet Union and in retrospect no I 2235 01:48:10,229 --> 01:48:08,499 don't think so I don't think I think 2236 01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:10,239 their technology was a step in back of 2237 01:48:18,569 --> 01:48:11,650 ours yeah 2238 01:48:19,680 --> 01:48:18,579 would you let's revisit the the well I 2239 01:48:23,189 --> 01:48:19,690 don't know if you want to call it an 2240 01:48:27,540 --> 01:48:23,199 implant a possible implant but you said 2241 01:48:30,750 --> 01:48:27,550 you had this x-ray in 9 2012 and then 2242 01:48:32,580 --> 01:48:30,760 this is what actually prompted did it 2243 01:48:36,839 --> 01:48:32,590 prompt nightmares and things like that 2244 01:48:40,290 --> 01:48:36,849 is that what you were good ok let's talk 2245 01:48:41,850 --> 01:48:40,300 about that and also had you thought 2246 01:48:44,009 --> 01:48:41,860 about having it removed we'll talk about 2247 01:48:45,649 --> 01:48:44,019 that too if you would that's a good 2248 01:48:49,489 --> 01:48:45,659 question 2249 01:48:52,589 --> 01:48:49,499 the discovery of this thing in my leg 2250 01:48:56,279 --> 01:48:52,599 there was a radiologist I go to the VA 2251 01:48:58,709 --> 01:48:56,289 for all my care and a VA radiologist 2252 01:49:00,029 --> 01:48:58,719 because the the radio radiology techs 2253 01:49:01,589 --> 01:49:00,039 said you know you have a piece of metal 2254 01:49:03,799 --> 01:49:01,599 in your leg if a shrapnel wound or 2255 01:49:06,089 --> 01:49:03,809 something no I never left the state's 2256 01:49:10,290 --> 01:49:06,099 she said we got something on in your 2257 01:49:13,319 --> 01:49:10,300 knee and I asked to see the x-ray and 2258 01:49:16,859 --> 01:49:13,329 she showed it to me and you don't need a 2259 01:49:18,390 --> 01:49:16,869 medical degree to see it and it's in the 2260 01:49:20,790 --> 01:49:18,400 back of my book you can see it at the 2261 01:49:23,029 --> 01:49:20,800 top and to the right it looks like a 2262 01:49:26,640 --> 01:49:23,039 computer chip with two wires attached 2263 01:49:29,129 --> 01:49:26,650 and the radiologists come down and came 2264 01:49:31,950 --> 01:49:29,139 down and he has a cup of coffee in his 2265 01:49:34,020 --> 01:49:31,960 hand he's looking at my x-ray and he's 2266 01:49:35,640 --> 01:49:34,030 talking to the technician and he walks 2267 01:49:38,100 --> 01:49:35,650 over to me and he pokes me in the thigh 2268 01:49:41,279 --> 01:49:38,110 and says it'll be right there and my 2269 01:49:42,810 --> 01:49:41,289 water what will be right there and he 2270 01:49:45,209 --> 01:49:42,820 says you have a scar there from where 2271 01:49:46,169 --> 01:49:45,219 this thing entered your your leg it's a 2272 01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:46,179 portal of entry 2273 01:49:53,819 --> 01:49:51,489 anytime you incise the skin it's going 2274 01:49:56,609 --> 01:49:53,829 to leave a scar now I'm like doctor I 2275 01:49:58,350 --> 01:49:56,619 don't have a scar in sure you do it 2276 01:50:01,290 --> 01:49:58,360 probably happened to use a child you 2277 01:50:04,500 --> 01:50:01,300 don't remember and he insisted on 2278 01:50:07,140 --> 01:50:04,510 examining my leg and he did and he was 2279 01:50:10,140 --> 01:50:07,150 kind of dumbfounded 2280 01:50:12,810 --> 01:50:10,150 he had as intern come down with a 2281 01:50:15,899 --> 01:50:12,820 handheld backlight killed the light snow 2282 01:50:17,970 --> 01:50:15,909 in the x-ray room so he could look at my 2283 01:50:19,800 --> 01:50:17,980 leg under a black Lexus I guess scar 2284 01:50:25,280 --> 01:50:19,810 tissue will fluoresce under a black or a 2285 01:50:27,990 --> 01:50:25,290 black light and I have no scar and I 2286 01:50:29,729 --> 01:50:28,000 said doctor how he said there should be 2287 01:50:31,260 --> 01:50:29,739 a corresponding scar and I saw back here 2288 01:50:33,479 --> 01:50:31,270 how often is it that you see an x-ray 2289 01:50:37,080 --> 01:50:33,489 where there's a foreign body and not a 2290 01:50:38,490 --> 01:50:37,090 corresponding scar and he said never he 2291 01:50:39,479 --> 01:50:38,500 said I've never in my life seen this 2292 01:50:41,399 --> 01:50:39,489 before 2293 01:50:43,470 --> 01:50:41,409 he said I've seen scars that have 2294 01:50:46,709 --> 01:50:43,480 migrated where people have lost or 2295 01:50:50,550 --> 01:50:46,719 gained weight but with age the scar may 2296 01:50:53,310 --> 01:50:50,560 have migrated a an inch or two away but 2297 01:50:55,620 --> 01:50:53,320 to have no scar never seen it the flow 2298 01:50:58,890 --> 01:50:55,630 and then there's a second structure 2299 01:51:02,280 --> 01:50:58,900 below my knee the thing above my knee he 2300 01:51:05,580 --> 01:51:02,290 said is absolutely man-made the 2301 01:51:09,780 --> 01:51:05,590 structure below my knee it served it 2302 01:51:12,240 --> 01:51:09,790 it's in a florette pattern and he said 2303 01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:12,250 these things are the consistency of bone 2304 01:51:17,310 --> 01:51:15,250 tissue but he said I've never seen bone 2305 01:51:24,149 --> 01:51:17,320 tissue sprout in the middle of a muscle 2306 01:51:28,050 --> 01:51:24,159 before and he said I don't know I just 2307 01:51:30,090 --> 01:51:28,060 don't know so well we also let you know 2308 01:51:32,580 --> 01:51:30,100 we only have a couple minutes left so 2309 01:51:35,880 --> 01:51:32,590 yeah just about two minutes or so 2310 01:51:38,250 --> 01:51:35,890 so why or had you thought of having this 2311 01:51:40,649 --> 01:51:38,260 thing removed you bet first thing I 2312 01:51:42,180 --> 01:51:40,659 wanted to do I wanted it out of me the 2313 01:51:44,899 --> 01:51:42,190 problem that I had was too full 2314 01:51:52,970 --> 01:51:44,909 number one is I'd had two heart attacks 2315 01:51:56,640 --> 01:51:52,980 and my health was not the greatest and I 2316 01:52:00,090 --> 01:51:56,650 talked to probably six surgeons over two 2317 01:52:01,770 --> 01:52:00,100 and a half years I spent probably maybe 2318 01:52:03,570 --> 01:52:01,780 thirty five hundred to five thousand 2319 01:52:05,340 --> 01:52:03,580 dollars out of my pocket with consults 2320 01:52:06,510 --> 01:52:05,350 and because you got to go through a 2321 01:52:09,110 --> 01:52:06,520 doctor to see a doctor 2322 01:52:12,570 --> 01:52:09,120 yeah and every surgeon I talked to 2323 01:52:14,280 --> 01:52:12,580 wanted a cardiologist blessing before 2324 01:52:18,390 --> 01:52:14,290 they'd operate no cardiologist would 2325 01:52:20,129 --> 01:52:18,400 give me that sure yeah I see yeah I know 2326 01:52:20,850 --> 01:52:20,139 they're gnarly you know I've had surgery 2327 01:52:22,140 --> 01:52:20,860 and I understand 2328 01:52:24,390 --> 01:52:22,150 that's they really do check you out 2329 01:52:26,850 --> 01:52:24,400 first they don't want you to drop dead 2330 01:52:31,740 --> 01:52:26,860 on the table yes well and they 2331 01:52:35,760 --> 01:52:31,750 classified as a non therapeutic surgery 2332 01:52:38,910 --> 01:52:35,770 yeah was it wasn't so that's couldn't 2333 01:52:40,399 --> 01:52:38,920 get it done right right yeah we have two 2334 01:52:43,770 --> 01:52:40,409 minutes left so why don't you tell the 2335 01:52:45,540 --> 01:52:43,780 the listening audience you mentioned you 2336 01:52:48,270 --> 01:52:45,550 give out your email if you'd like to 2337 01:52:49,530 --> 01:52:48,280 dare to do that you may get contacts 2338 01:52:51,450 --> 01:52:49,540 from people that would like to talk to 2339 01:52:53,550 --> 01:52:51,460 you about your your incident and also 2340 01:52:55,320 --> 01:52:53,560 tell us where people can find your 2341 01:52:58,890 --> 01:52:55,330 anaemia book once again and where people 2342 01:53:03,330 --> 01:52:58,900 can find it yes the book is incident at 2343 01:53:07,850 --> 01:53:03,340 Devil's Den it's on Amazon and it's in 2344 01:53:13,620 --> 01:53:07,860 print in eBook and I made an audio book 2345 01:53:15,720 --> 01:53:13,630 and as I said it's on Amazon and what 2346 01:53:18,859 --> 01:53:15,730 was the other thing I just wondered and 2347 01:53:24,359 --> 01:53:18,869 people can contact you yes 2348 01:53:29,850 --> 01:53:24,369 the email is Lovelace dot land hope LAN 2349 01:53:32,040 --> 01:53:29,860 D P ope land poke at gmail.com if you've 2350 01:53:34,609 --> 01:53:32,050 had an experience I'm not not a doctor 2351 01:53:37,649 --> 01:53:34,619 I'm not a therapist but I'd be happy to 2352 01:53:40,979 --> 01:53:37,659 if you've had an experience email me I 2353 01:53:43,229 --> 01:53:40,989 answer every single one almost all 400 2354 01:53:45,450 --> 01:53:43,239 of them so far so if you've had 2355 01:53:48,540 --> 01:53:45,460 experience you're welcome to contact me 2356 01:53:50,160 --> 01:53:48,550 and where do you go next 2357 01:53:53,220 --> 01:53:50,170 where do you what do you think the 2358 01:53:55,290 --> 01:53:53,230 future is for this whole situation do 2359 01:53:57,060 --> 01:53:55,300 you think you'll talk about it more do 2360 01:54:00,390 --> 01:53:57,070 you think you're you're you said you're 2361 01:54:03,000 --> 01:54:00,400 sort of at peace with it you know I am 2362 01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:03,010 and I'll be real quick I had an unusual 2363 01:54:09,060 --> 01:54:06,010 visitor come to see me I had a physician 2364 01:54:11,550 --> 01:54:09,070 come to see me in October and I won't 2365 01:54:16,859 --> 01:54:11,560 reveal his name because he asked me not 2366 01:54:20,040 --> 01:54:16,869 to and he was kind enough to take the 2367 01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:20,050 x-rays from the VA and he was able to 2368 01:54:24,959 --> 01:54:22,330 triangulate from two different views of 2369 01:54:27,300 --> 01:54:24,969 my leg to determine that the thing that 2370 01:54:30,330 --> 01:54:27,310 looks like a computer chip was actually 2371 01:54:32,100 --> 01:54:30,340 deep inside my leg and it wasn't some 2372 01:54:34,260 --> 01:54:32,110 people say well it looks like something 2373 01:54:37,020 --> 01:54:34,270 that was laying on the table maybe or 2374 01:54:38,700 --> 01:54:37,030 sucking my clothing and he was able to 2375 01:54:40,650 --> 01:54:38,710 definitively prove that was an odd 2376 01:54:43,020 --> 01:54:40,660 visitor and I don't have time to go into 2377 01:54:44,820 --> 01:54:43,030 it but yeah we are out of time thank 2378 01:54:47,820 --> 01:54:44,830 thank you so much Terry it's been a real 2379 01:54:50,160 --> 01:54:47,830 pleasure thank you questions Ramon all 2380 01:54:52,800 --> 01:54:50,170 right okay all right everyone so that's 2381 01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:52,810 it for our show tonight next week we 2382 01:54:55,920 --> 01:54:54,610 have Todd Curtis I'm really excited 2383 01:55:00,330 --> 01:54:55,930 about that because he's going to be 2384 01:55:03,510 --> 01:55:00,340 talking about the jl 1628 UFO incident 2385 01:55:07,080 --> 01:55:03,520 over alaska and so much more he is into 2386 01:55:09,660 --> 01:55:07,090 aviation safety and that's his that's 2387 01:55:12,540 --> 01:55:09,670 his whole background and he has a 2388 01:55:13,170 --> 01:55:12,550 fascination with the UFO topic so that's 2389 01:55:15,570 --> 01:55:13,180 it 2390 01:55:18,570 --> 01:55:15,580 thanks so much for supporting the show